Hello cavepeople, anyone out there?

[nela]

Why is this group so dead? I check in here every day and would really like to talk about the low carb experience with others who are following the same plan. Let's see if we can shake things up a bit! :wiggle:
I'll be looking out for your posts! :)

[jaybird]

Yeah, it's pretty dead isn't it? I'm currently doing Atkins maintenance but I'm getting myself over to paleo. I don't eat any grains, but am still eating some dairy and I know that's not paleo. I'm working on buying some grass fed beef from a local farmer...if not this year than next. My mom is interested in the grass fed beef, so we will probably go in thirds with my brother if we do it this year. Next year I'd like to buy a whole cow for my family.
Are you eating all grass fed beef?

[nela]

Hi Jaybird,
glad to know there are more of us out there! :)

I did Atkins in the past but found it really hard going, so I've switched over to Paleo. I haven't been eating any fruit lately, but if there's something that catches my eye when I'm shopping, then I'll get it. Do you eat any fruit? Are you taking supplements? I am.

I don't know if the meat I eat is grass fed. Maybe it's different here? I'm not stressing out about it, as I know that European standards are stricter than in the US, and that lower levels of hormones, etc are the norm. that's what I've read anyway, I don't know if it's true.

If you buy a whole cow will you share it with your family? And will you just freeze whatever you're not using?

[PaleoDeano]

Hello fellow paleo dieters,

I am still eating paleo (but I do butter and cheese - for the FAT). I am a big believer in fat. I think people need to eat as much as they can. I also think eating grass-fed animals is the way to go. What are other's thoughts on fat (and eating butter and cheese)? And about the fruit. I have given up fruit for a whole month at a time, just to get my carbs way down to lose body fat. Fruits are much sweeter now than they were in Paleo times, huh?

Glad to see there is some interest in keeping this section of the LC forum alive!

Take care.

Dean

[huntress]

I don't have a lot of time to post so i take a peek here an there. I eat wild game and forage for greens, hubby thinks i am crazy but before i got married (20yrs) i was very healthy eating that way i found it took me a long time to get use to the taste of beef, fat tasted strange. Ate modern foods got sick gained weight. Hubby always wanted to live off the land, but he will not do it got to have his beer and cake.

Grew up in a hunting household with a trapping uncle to help me learn and supply moose meat, got my own small game. Started hunting big game at 18 still trying to get a moose, gotten a lot of deer. Time is all I need.

Diane

[PaleoDeano]

Hi Diane,

That sounds great!

I would love to hunt wild animals for their superior meat. Right now I have to rely on farmers who raise bison and elk and deer, as well as grass-fed lamb and beef (and organically raised pork). But, someday I would like to move to getting my own game.

I know that when I eat just eggs and meat and green veggies I do the best on weight (and body fat) loss. I have had to restart "induction" on Sep 1st, and have been doing mostly just meat and eggs and cheese since then. I will add some veggies next week. So, what are your thoughts on dairy? I use to not do any dairy at all, but, for the fat, I have started eating butter and small amounts of cheese (usually just in omelets). I wonder if that is a good thing or not.

Thanks for helping keep this forum alive!

How 'bout the rest of your paleo folk?

Dean

PS... hey, Diane, how do you add one of those cheat-free day things to your signature? And, good luck on getting that moose!

[huntress]

My thoughts on dairy is, I like butter you can render it down into ghee and it is easy to cook with, cheese bothers me I don,t know why but I get killer headaches when I eat cheese, milk I can live without might have a glass or 2 in a year. I have strong bones according to my Dr without it, getting my calcium some where

To add the sig Cheat free day type
[img]http.//home.new.rr.com/kitanniweb/atkins/1.gif[img]
to change no of days change the 1.gif to 2.gif etc

Diane

[PaleoDeano]

I know what you mean about cheese. I eat very little of it, and often give it up for months. I sometimes have bad reactions too it as well. I really only like it in omelets. I like butter though. I use it to cook eggs all the time, and to sauté mushrooms. I also like it on hot veggies... or in bison / veggie stew. But, it is still foreign proteins, right?

There is more calcium in 1/4 lb of bison than in a full glass of milk. Also, certain veggies have a lot of calcium.

Thanks a lot for the help on the signature deal.

Dean

[PaleoDeano]

What is the easiest way to make ghee?

[huntress]

to make ghee you melt sweet butter (unsalted) over medium heat skim off froth, simmer 20 to 30 min and strain cooked milk solids, I use an coffee filter in a stainer. Stable at room temp and can be used at a higher cooking temp. It is pure fat all the proteins are hardened and strained out. I love my fat too.

Diane i'm down another 3 lbs :yay: :yay:

[jaybird]

Nela, yes I do eat fruits. I try not to eat too many because I am trying to lose weight. But I do eat them fairly regulary especially when there is some in my co-op food box I get..I usually get organic bananas, berries, melon, etc. As for supplements, since I'm not able to get grass-fed beef at the moment I take omega-3's. I also take coral calcium. I'm supposed to be taking a prenatal vitamin too, but need to go buy more (I'm breastfeeding).
This last week I haven't lost any weight after a steady loss of about 2 lbs a week for August. I'm wondering if it's the dairy in my diet. I do love cheese especially on omelets too PaleoDeano! I think I need to cut down on the fruit a little to start losing faster again. And maybe I should cut out some of the cheese too.

[PaleoDeano]

hi jaybird,

in july i went the whole month eating only meat and veggies. i was losing weight and body fat very steadily. on the 26th of the month i hit my all time low weight (172.6) and body fat (13.6%)... then i started eating small amounts of fruit... and then a bit larger amounts of fruit (and a few nuts) and i started gaining weight and body fat steadily.

after that i broke down and started consuming sugar on a regular basis... tried very hard to get off the white stuff, but was unable until last monday Sep 1st. i have gone 7 days (counting today) eating only meat and eggs and butter and a very small amount of cheese - and today i started eating veggies (had a wonderful salad with lots of different veggies and eggs and grilled chicken!)

i now feel very good! :yay: really glad to be off that sugar binge!

but, i know from experience that every time i eat fruit, while my weight may not go up a lot, it will inch up. but, like body builders, the best way to lose body fat is to restrict those carbs and eat good protein and fat often. you may be losing weight, and it is muscle, so it is very important to eat lots of protein (and fat!).

i doubt the cheese is what is giving you the stall, but it wouldn't hurt to cut down on it anyway (from a foreign protein standpoint).

[nela]

Hi Jaybird,

yes, I think the fruit may be stalling you, let me know what happens if/when you decide to stop eating it. What interested me the most about your post is the fact that you're breastfeeding. I'm trying to conceive right now and have my doubts about doing low carb once I get pregnant. Did you low carb throughout your pregnancy? If so, what did your doctor say about it? I'd be very interested to know. I really believe in this WOL and would be quite put out if my doc told me to eat lots of carbs!
Take care. :)

Hi everyone! Seems that this board is getting a little more active lately :lol:
I'm also eating cheese, mainly the shredded kind, which I sometimes put on top of fried eggs. It's delicious. I haven't had any fruit in about 3 weeks and I find that my body seems to be changing. People have started noticing me shrinking :wiggle: The funny thing is that the scale seems to have jammed at 62 kilos, but I can get into last year's jeans. weird....

[PaleoDeano]

hi nela,

i think your waistline may be shrinking as you lose more body fat, but your overall weight is staying the same, because you are also gaining muscle. great job! :)

Dean

[huntress]

I steer clear of fruit, I had one plum and I developed such cravings for sugar it drove me batty. I like it when you get smaller and not much change on the scale means more metabolic active muscle for me. I lost a lot of muscle on low fat high carb. Now eating my fill of meat my muscles are coming back, Great I can up the poundage on my bow. Yep this is the life good food, good friends,and lots of good advice.
Love this forum

Diane

[nela]

Hi Dean! :)

Thanks so much for those positive words! I really do think the cellulite I have on my upper thighs is shrinking. This is incredible! I think it's weird that I'm eating so much fat and the fat is disappearing off me. My legs are looking so toned and even slightly muscular. yay! :yay:
How about you?

hi Diane, I know what you mean about having sugar cravings after eating sweet fruit! Whenever I go grocery shopping I try to ignore all the aisles that have sweets and even fruit. I do buy lots of veggies though. If I really want a piece of fruit I'll go for a kiwi or an apple because I've read that they aren't high in carbs.
Congrats on getting those muscles back! Isn't it a great feeling when you look in the mirror and actually see a more sculpted you! :lol:

[PaleoDeano]

Here is a list of some fruits' ECC (Effective Carb-Count) per 100 g
from http://www.lowcarb.ca/low-carb-tools/carb_counter.html

Avocados 2.67, Rhubarb 2.74, Olives 3.06, Strawberries 4.72, Raspberries 4.77, Starfruit 5.13, Casaba Melons 5.40, Guavas 6.48, Lemons 6.52, Watermelon 6.68, Blackberries 7.46, Cantaloupe 7.56, Limes 7.74, Grapefruit 7.91, Papayas 8.01, Mulberries 8.10, Loganberries 8.12, Boysenberries 8.29, Cranberries 8.48, Honeydew Melons 8.58, Apricots 8.72, Tangerines 8.89, Peaches 9.10, Oranges 9.28, Kumquats 9.83, Nectarines 10.18, Blueberries 10.43, Pineapple 11.19, Elderberries 11.40, Kiwi 11.48, Plums 11.51, Apples 12.55, Cherries 12.58, Pears 12.71

In general, it appears the berries and melons are lowest in carbs. This list does not include the sweeter fruits, such as bananas, dates, etc.
Even though strawberries are low in sugar, they seem to bring about the same cravings Diane describes...

In July I stayed off all fruit for the first 4 weeks, and then started to eat them in small quantities... my weight (and body fat) began to go up... and I began having cravings for sugar... and then a couple weeks later broke down and started eating it... it took me several weeks to get off the stuff... so, I agree with Diane in the fact that it might be better to avoid all fruits all together and just eat lots of veggies.

Right now I am starting to eat veggies after a week of just meat and eggs. I am almost afraid to add fruit back into my diet in the future.

What are other's thoughts on fruit? I would be very interested to know.

Dean

[jaybird]

Gosh, I really love fruit. I haven't seen a weight gain from it at this point, but I'm definitely not losing at the moment. So, the fruit I get in my co-op box I think I will sell to my brother and use the money to get more veggies for the time being. I think once I lose all the weight I want to lose I will introduce the berries and melons back (those are my fav fruits anyway!) Oh and thanks for that list Deano.

Nala, as for going low carb while pregnant I don't see any problem with it at all. Some doctors of course will insist you need to eat a lot of whole grains. I was on Atkins when I got pregnant and stupid me I went off the diet while pregnant and in my sixth month was borderline gestational diabetes. I was sent to a dietician who gave me the diabetic diet to go on, which was loaded with carbs! I ignored their advice and ate lots of meat, cheese, veggies and some fruit and my blood sugar was back to normal. I went to a birthing center (drug free birth) and my midwives were fine with me not eating lots of carbs....and my baby boy was born at a healthy weight of 7lbs 6 oz 20 inches long. And in my opinion, the fact that I got pregnant while low carbing speaks for it's safety.
I've heard some say ketosis is not good for pregnancy or breastfeeding...but I've heard of people doing it and everything being fine. There are always two sides to every story, you know? After all, if grains are not good for mom there is no way they can be good for baby, that's my opinion. After all, back in the day when there was no bread to eat, woman still gave birth to healthy babies...here we all are to prove it. Good luck conceiving, it's such an awesome adventure! Are you having a hospital birth or birthing center? We're having our next one at home....
I'm cutting out the fruit and will let you guys all know how it goes.

[nela]

Thanks for that list Dean! I was happy to see that avocadoes are low in carbs. Think I'll rustle up some guacamole tonight :)
If you're avoiding all fruits, are you at all concerned about not getting enough Vitamin C? Or do you think that with peppers and other kinds of veggies you'll be able to get enough. I think so. After all, red peppers have loads of Vit C, and so do other veggies. I'll be interested to hear your take on this.

Jaybird...thanks so much for sharing your experience. That was really helpful. I think I'm going to stick to this WOL unless I get pregnant and discover that I have high cholesterol or something. I did the Atkins diet about 6 years ago and didn't eat enough veggies, so of course I had high cholesterol. Now I'm doing this WOL properly and have lots of veggies and salad.
To answer your question, I'd have a hospital birth, as I'm probably at high risk (I'm 38 and would be 39 at birth, plus the fact that it would be my first baby). I don't know if any of this is going to happen in any case, as we've been trying for so long and are now going to do IUI. How many kids do you have? :)

I'm hoping to get pregnant in the next few months and will be very interested to hear what the doc has to say about this WOL. I'm a bit tired of having to defend it to people! Most of them just go "huh?" when you tell them that calories aren't that important in weight loss. Just goes to show how we've been brainwashed. :rolleyes:

[PaleoDeano]

nela,

avocadoes are not only low in carbs, but high in fat! :)

peppers, tomatoes, broccoli, kale all have lots of C
i know peppers and tomatoes are fruits, but they are not sweet at all

i thought it was excess carbs (combined with fat) that gives one high cholesterol
i am curious to know how not eating veggies would raise cholesterol
i thought if one ate just meat and fat (and eggs) and even cheese their cholesterol would be ok, provided, of course, they did LC
would be curious to know more about this

about the docs, it depends on the doctor
there are some doctors who are for this woe
but most, as you pointed out, are brainwashed

good luck on conceiving!

Dean

[huntress]

I lucked out my doctor suggested that I eat more meat and veggies, I didn't know how to begin, The paleo diet just jumped out at me in chapters. So I am sorta doing paleo and atkins mix, If I see a neanderthin book I'll get It, I want to read that one. I always thought hunter gathers would seek out the fattest parts first then use some of the lean to dry. Paleo says don't eat fat, Pigs ears, I did the low no fat thing and got sick. Fatty meat and lots of green veggies for me.
I think getting pregnant should be easy on this wol all your hormones will be balanced. Mine have, I have Pcos.

my avitar Picture is from my bear picture Ds set it up so fast made my head spin :spin:
Diane

[PaleoDeano]

Right on Diane! :thup:

Animal and human hunters did seek out the fattest parts of the animal first. Fat was prized! The organs are the first parts animals eat... very high in cholesterol and saturated fat (and other good nutrients)!

In his book "The Paleo Diet", Loren Cordain cautions about eating the "wrong kinds" of fats. This is very perplexing to me. He is supposedly the foremost authority on paleo diets. But, I really think he is way off! I'm sorry, but I agree with Diane, and from my personal experiences have found that fat is so good for you.

In the excellent book "Life Without Bread", the authors Dr Allan and Dr Lutz demonstrate through the results of years of actual clinical work on thousands of patients, and detailed physiology (down to the cellular level), that fat is extremely beneficial to humans. They point out that the heart's preferred energy source is saturated fat! They also expose and tear to shreds the unscientific low-fat studies that are the bases for all the low-fat rhetoric that has been accepted as "fact" for so long. They actually site many LC authors and say that while they are in agreement on LC, they are not in agreement with HF (high fat). Neanderthin is a great book too, because Ray Audette says the same thing about getting plenty of fat in our diets.

I will second what Diane says : "Fatty meat and lots of green veggies for me." And having hormones balanced is like the central theme in "Life Without Bread". Excess insulin (a hormone) causes an imbalance of all the other hormones and causes all sorts of health problems (of which excess weight and body fat are but only one).

"Life Without Bread" doctors actually recommend 72 grams (6 bread units) a day of carbs, and don't believe in an induction period like Atkins. Although, I think Atkins does this to help get your metabolism in line, as well as break the carb addiction problems. Either way, I am more apt to just want to eat lots of veggies and plenty of fatty (grass-fed) meat and eggs for optimal health. If I eat something too sweet (like certain fruit), it can cause me to start really craving sugar (or at least more and more fruit - in higher quantities). I don't really have to count carbs at all on this type of diet, I am always under 72 grams eating this way.

This is a great link that shows how paleo diets were mostly fat!
http://www.westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/native_americans.html
and after reading this, remember... 80% of the diet of native americans was FAT (including lots of saturated fat)!

Dean

[jaybird]

Speaking of fatty meat and green veggies...I'm eating a steak with green beans and slithered almonds. I buttered the green beans, and even my steak ( I usually like it medium rare but overcooked it and it was a bit dry). Yummy!


You know, something else that I think was hanging me up on losing weight. My husband started the Atkins induction and he is a real soda addict, so he was drinking diet rite every day (sweetened with splenda). I usually don't drink it, but I was drinking quite a bit of it last week. I know I'm bad! Well, and also I ate some Atkins advantage protien bars. Now that I haven't touched that stuff for a few days I'm down a pound this morning to 206. I even ate two nectarines yesterday, so maybe it was more the artificial garbage that stalled me. I'm still going to eliminate fruit for a while though.

I'm really excited, my husband wants to get a dehydrator...beef jerky here I come! I've been wanting to make some for a while. Any of you made beef jerky yourself?

Nela, I just have one child now..he is my first! Before we had him my husband said he wanted 4 kids....since Jakob was born he's thinking maybe 1 or 2 more. We may have 4 all told, but I think we will take a break after number 2. We're gonna start trying for number 2 next year (February)...I really want to be at goal weight by then. Then we will just concentrate on hubbie finishing school and growing financially before we try for more.

Huntress, I think you're right about being easier to get pregnant on this wol...after all I got pregnant within a month after starting Atkins last year and so did my SIL also on Atkins...our babies were born an hour apart. !

[nela]

Jaybird, thanks for sharing about your family! :) I also want to get to target weight before getting pregnant. I think everything would be so much easier that way.

I'm also cutting fruit out until I can get to target weight. I'm eating a lot of veggies though. does anyone think that eating too many would stall you?

[sunkist]

Hi Jaybird
Diet-rite is hard to pass up. It tastes so great and I won't drink anything with aspartame in it. But you are so right when you say it can hang you up. Mainly for me it's because I couodn't stop at just one per day.

sometimes just the sweet TASTE of something (whetehr it has calories or not) is enough to cause you to hold onto weight :cry:

[PaleoDeano]

sometimes just the sweet TASTE of something (whetehr it has calories or not) is enough to cause you to hold onto weight :cry:it's because the pancreas will start producing insulin as soon as something sweet hits the tongue (even artificial sweeteners).

[jaybird]

Sunkist, I know what you mean about not stopping at one diet rite. That was my problem the other week. I had a small amount of diet rite this week...with some coconut rum in it. What a treat! Otherwise I've been really good. I've had blueberries twice over the last two weeks. I lost another pound this week despite the alcohol consumption.

PaleoDeano...interesting about blood sugar and artificial sweeteners: where did you get that information? Is the blood sugar response less though for artificial sweeteners or the same?

Nela, it will definitely help things to be at a comfortable weight before being pregnant. I was sooo tired when pregnant and I know a lot of that was due to already overweight and of course improper diet.

My body fat is down 2% this month! I'm so happy about this. My waist/hips/thighs measurements haven't changed though. I guess maybe things are just firming up, I'm looking forward to them shrinking though. I've noticed in my fit day food break downs I'm eating lots of fat lately and I think it is what really got my weight loss going again.

I've lost 10 lbs in the last 6 weeks!

[PaleoDeano]

if you consume sugar it will cause a rise in blood sugar, and therefore will continue to cause the release of insulin... but the artificial is not going to do that, but will still cause some insulin release just because your body will be tricked momentarily. still, i personally would not want to put artificial stuff in my body.

[jaybird]

Wow, interesting Deano. Yes, and I agree the artificial stuff just isn't good.

[sunkist]

JAYBIRD!!! Oh no - now i have an idea in my head about the perfect weekend drink. I LOVE coconut rum ever since i went to the Cayman Islands!! Rum Punch.

Let's see it would be perfect with the Raspberry Diet Rite - also hansens has some diet drinks that use Splenda too. I think I am going to give the lower fruit a try - not because of weight but sometimes fruit also makes me sleepy!! It depends on the fruit itself too - I love blueberries & cherries and never have trouble with them. I'll give it a try though!!!

[jaybird]

SUNKIST, sorry to tempt you! lol...hey that Rum punch sounds good. I've never had coconut rum until last weekend...it's now my fav alcoholic beverage I think. I think next weekend I may just indulge in a Rasberry Rum Punch (with the Rasberry diet rite). As long as I've lost another pound by Friday I will have some, good reward I think.

[sunkist]

ha ha yes I became quite acquainted with "Captain Morgan" while in the Carribean!! Let me know if you try it and how it tastes!! :lol: