Hanging a heavy bag

[Don]

I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus room
upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I was
trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be punching
and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems with my
sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store use two
lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a bracket that
the bag hangs on.

I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible because
the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Philippe]

"Don" <tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com...
> I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store
> use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a
> bracket that the bag hangs on.
>
> I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!
From experience, you need to get *anything* heavier than 60lbs
or so into a beam... If you're a real wiz with tools, drill a
hole through your ceiling to the joist, then have a pin go
through the joist(horizontally) and have your chain/whatever
hooking on that... (you'd want some sort of sleeve on the hole
through the ceiling to avoid rub damage). I've currently got a
4 inch screw-in that goes through the ceiling and into a
joist... not bad, but I've had it come right out(as in rip
itself out of the wood) due to jarring...

Good luck,
P.

Ps.. I use beam/joist interchangeably, 'cause I know d$ck
about carpentry... :P

[Keith Hobm]

In article <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:

> I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store
> use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a
> bracket that the bag hangs on.
>
> I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!

No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
unless you have a centre beam.

If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good kick will
wreck joints in the drywall. You have to run supports between
the joists and lock the entire cealing together. If you can
access your attic this won't be very tough. But it will take
some wood.

You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel hook
through it to run between two joists, brace those joists so
three joists are tied together for a good section of the span
and then put a circular recessed lighting type of thing into
the ceiling and hook through the empty hole. The diameter has
to be low enough it can swing.

But I have one down in my basement running through a centre
beam and the entire house shakes when I use.

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

[Omegazero2]

"Don" <tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com...
> I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store
> use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a
> bracket that the bag hangs on.
>
> I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Unless you are sure you will center the lag bolts on the
rafters, I would bolt a 2x4 or 2x6 across 2 rafters using 2
bolts on each end, paint the board the same color as ceiling,
then bolt the plate onto the 2x4 or 2x6.

[B]

Use your search engine for info on how to hang a sex swing.
The dynamics are similar. -B

"Don" <tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com...
> I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store
> use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a
> bracket that the bag hangs on.
>
> I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Elvis Pars]

"Don" <tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com...
> I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings.

Jeez, she helps you out with your bonus room, and now you want
to hang and beat her? BTW, 80lbs isn't that heavy, you sure
she isn't anorexic?

[Lyle McDon]

Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> In article <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
>
> > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> > room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> > was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> > punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> > with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the
> > store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds
> > a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> >
> > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
> >
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
> unless you have a centre beam.

Keith,

Do you have any specific protocols for strengthening
joists? Are joists tonic or phasic and does that have
implications for their training? How should I work my joist
strengthening into my overall yearly plan? Should it be
periodized and, if so, how?

Lyle

[Omegazero2]

"Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
news:khobman-0209031257440001@192.168.0.2...
> In article <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
>
> > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> > room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> > was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> > punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> > with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the
> > store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds
> > a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> >
> > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
> >
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
> unless you have a centre beam.
>
> If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good kick
> will wreck joints in the drywall. You have to run supports
> between the joists and lock the entire cealing together. If
> you can access your attic this won't be very tough. But it
> will take some wood.

You can do this outside the drywall - on top of the
drywall placing a 2x6 across 2 rafters (using 6" lags into
the joists), painting the board then bolting the bracket
to the 2x6.

>
> You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel hook
> through it to run between two joists, brace those joists so
> three joists are tied together for a good section of the
> span and then put a circular recessed lighting type of thing
> into the ceiling and hook through the empty hole. The
> diameter has to be low enough it can swing.
>
> But I have one down in my basement running through a centre
> beam and the entire house shakes when I use.
>
> --
> Keith Hobman
>
> --- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

[Spammers_s]

"Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
news:khobman-0209031257440001@192.168.0.2...
> In article <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
>
> > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> > room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> > was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> > punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> > with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the
> > store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds
> > a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> >
> > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
> >
> > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
>
> No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
> unless you have a centre beam.

Sure you can, though it depends upon what the load is the
joist is carrying, it's span, and the size of the joist. The
ceiling of my exercise room is 2x10s (@16" o.c. - not that it
matters in this case though) with a span of 12 feet. With
this size joist and this span deflection is acceptable with a
point load of ~875 lbs. And that's just hanging it off one
point on one joist. 2x10 joists with a 12' span have a load
bearing capacity of ~73 lbs. per lineal foot. And these
numbers are for acceptable deflection, which is no where near
total failure.

Now in the case of the OP he's dealing with a "bonus room"
with "7' ceilings" which implies that he's probably got
collar ties to hang off of (if the ceiling is flat) or
rafters/trusses (if the ceiling is sloped). If they are
indeed collar ties (usually 2x4s or 2x6s) or trusses (which
generally are made out of 2x4s) then he's dealing with
substantially smaller lumber. If they are rafters (i.e. 2x8s,
2x10s, 2x12s etc - depending primarily what part of the
country the house is located in) then it's just a matter of
figuring out what the snow/wind loads are and how they effect
the total load capacity.

> If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good kick
> will wreck joints in the drywall. You have to run supports
> between the joists and lock the entire cealing together.

You do? Why?

> If you can access your attic this won't be very tough. But
> it will take some wood.

There is no "attic" in the traditional sense above a bonus
room, since by definition, a bonus room IS the attic.

> You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel hook
> through it to run between two joists, brace those joists so
> three joists are tied together for a good section of the
> span and then put a circular recessed lighting type of thing
> into the ceiling and hook through the empty hole. The
> diameter has to be low enough it can swing.
>
> But I have one down in my basement running through a centre
> beam and the entire house shakes when I use.

The shaking is caused by the vibration of the beam, not
because it isn't braced well enough. Cross bracing multiple
joists is not going to significantly reduce vibration
transmission.

Michael

[Lee Michae]

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3F54E981.81112203@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> Keith Hobman wrote:
> >
> > In article
> > <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> > tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
> >
> > > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> > > room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings.
> > > I was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will
> > > be punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause
> > > problems with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see
> > > at the store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter.
> > > This holds a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> > >
> > > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing
> > > anything.
> > >
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
> > unless you
have
> > a centre beam.
>
> Keith,
>
> Do you have any specific protocols for strengthening joists?
> Are joists tonic or phasic and does that have implications
> for their
training?
> How should I work my joist strengthening into my overall
> yearly plan? Should it be periodized and, if so, how?
>
Haven't you been listening Lyle? Of course you periodize it.

First you use hot water. Then you use cold water.

I will be here all ze week.

[Keith Hobm]

In article <3F54E981.81112203@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:

> Keith Hobman wrote:
> >
> > In article
> > <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> > tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
> >
> > > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> > > room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings.
> > > I was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will
> > > be punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause
> > > problems with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see
> > > at the store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter.
> > > This holds a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> > >
> > > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing
> > > anything.
> > >
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
> > unless you have a centre beam.
>
> Keith,
>
> Do you have any specific protocols for strengthening joists?

2x4 comes to mind. As in the wood.

> Are joists tonic or phasic and does that have implications
> for their training?

Phasic of course. Everything has inmplications, but you'll
have to buy my book "Strengthening Joists the Eastern bloc
Way" to find out how. Available from me for the low price of
$149.99 Canadian.

> How should I work my joist strengthening into my overall
> yearly plan?

This is the 'Hammer Strength' approach. Different book, same
great introductory price.

> Should it be periodized and, if so, how?

See above. If interested you can get BOTH books at the
one-time low price of $349.99.

Because its you, man. Or anyone else for that matter.

HTH.

--
Keith Hobman

--- email address above is a non-monitored spam sink.

[Stephen Mu]

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3F54E981.81112203@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> Keith Hobman wrote:
> >
> > In article
> > <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> > tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
> >
> > > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> > > room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings.
> > > I was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will
> > > be punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause
> > > problems with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see
> > > at the store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter.
> > > This holds a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> > >
> > > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing
> > > anything.
> > >
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
> > unless you
have
> > a centre beam.
>
> Keith,
>
> Do you have any specific protocols for strengthening joists?
> Are joists tonic or phasic and does that have implications
> for their
training?
> How should I work my joist strengthening into my overall
> yearly plan? Should it be periodized and, if so, how?

And Lyle would like a side-order of percentages with any
response.

Stephen
>
> Lyle

[Keith Hobm]

In article <fZ95b.36319$Jb1.24142@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
"Spammers_Should_Be_Shot" <NoSpam@MyEmail.com> wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> news:khobman-0209031257440001@192.168.0.2...
> > In article
> > <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> > tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
> >
> > > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> > > room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings.
> > > I was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will
> > > be punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause
> > > problems with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see
> > > at the store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter.
> > > This holds a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> > >
> > > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing
> > > anything.
> > >
> > > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> >
> > No way you can do this without strengthening your joists,
> > unless you have a centre beam.
>
> Sure you can, though it depends upon what the load is the
> joist is carrying, it's span, and the size of the joist. The
> ceiling of my exercise room is 2x10s (@16" o.c. - not that
> it matters in this case though) with a span of 12 feet. With
> this size joist and this span deflection is acceptable with
> a point load of ~875 lbs. And that's just hanging it off one
> point on one joist. 2x10 joists with a 12' span have a load
> bearing capacity of ~73 lbs. per lineal foot. And these
> numbers are for acceptable deflection, which is no where
> near total failure.
>
> Now in the case of the OP he's dealing with a "bonus room"
> with "7' ceilings" which implies that he's probably got
> collar ties to hang off of (if the ceiling is flat) or
> rafters/trusses (if the ceiling is sloped). If they are
> indeed collar ties (usually 2x4s or 2x6s) or trusses (which
> generally are made out of 2x4s) then he's dealing with
> substantially smaller lumber. If they are rafters (i.e.
> 2x8s, 2x10s, 2x12s etc - depending primarily what part of
> the country the house is located in) then it's just a matter
> of figuring out what the snow/wind loads are and how they
> effect the total load capacity.
>
> > If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good kick
> > will wreck joints in the drywall. You have to run supports
> > between the joists and lock the entire cealing together.
>
> You do? Why?
>
> > If you can access your attic this won't be very tough. But
> > it will take some wood.
>
> There is no "attic" in the traditional sense above a bonus
> room, since by definition, a bonus room IS the attic.
>
> > You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel hook
> > through it to run between two joists, brace those joists
> > so three joists are tied together for a good section of
> > the span and then put a circular recessed lighting type of
> > thing into the ceiling and hook through the empty hole.
> > The diameter has to be low enough it can swing.
> >
> > But I have one down in my basement running through a
> > centre beam and the entire house shakes when I use.
>
> The shaking is caused by the vibration of the beam, not
> because it isn't braced well enough. Cross bracing multiple
> joists is not going to significantly reduce vibration
> transmission.

When you kick a heavy bag you are loading the joist with far
more than the weight of the bag. What do you suggest would
distribute the load to more than one joist if not bracing?

[Lyle McDon]

Keith Hobman wrote:
>
> In article <3F54E981.81112203@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
> lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:

> > Should it be periodized and, if so, how?
>
> See above. If interested you can get BOTH books at the
> one-time low price of $349.99.
>
> Because its you, man. Or anyone else for that matter.

i'm feeling the love right now. Hot Canadian love.

Lyle

[Kitchens I]

"Don" <tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com...
> I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus
> room upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I
> was trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be
> punching and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems
> with my sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store
> use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a
> bracket that the bag hangs on.
>
> I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.
>
> Any help would be greatly appreciated!

I just screwed a 1/2" (universal swivel) hook bolt into the
center of the joist. it is easy to hang and remove. and when I
am not hitting the bag my wife hangs her plant from it. it has
worked fine for over 15 years. and NO complaints from the wife
about vibrations or shaking of the house. (not from the
hitting the bag anyway)

[Spammers_s]

"Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
news:khobman-0209031823200001@192.168.1.100...
> In article <fZ95b.36319$Jb1.24142@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> "Spammers_Should_Be_Shot" <NoSpam@MyEmail.com> wrote:
>
> > "Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> > news:khobman-0209031257440001@192.168.0.2...
> > > In article
> > > <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> > > tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a
> > > > bonus room
upstars
> > > > with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I was
> > > > trying to figure
the
> > > > best way to mount it. I will be punching and kicking
> > > > it. Will this jolting cause problems with my sheetrock
> > > > or anything? The mounts I
see
> > > > at the store use two lag bolts to screw into a rafter.
> > > > This holds a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> > > >
> > > > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> > > > because the
wife
> > > > is not too thrilled about seing anything.
> > > >
> > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> > >
> > > No way you can do this without strengthening your
> > > joists, unless you
have
> > > a centre beam.
> >
> > Sure you can, though it depends upon what the load is the
> > joist is
carrying,
> > it's span, and the size of the joist. The ceiling of my
> > exercise room
is
> > 2x10s (@16" o.c. - not that it matters in this case
> > though) with a span
of
> > 12 feet. With this size joist and this span deflection is
> > acceptable
with a
> > point load of ~875 lbs. And that's just hanging it off one
> > point on one joist. 2x10 joists with a 12' span have a
> > load bearing capacity of ~73
lbs.
> > per lineal foot. And these numbers are for acceptable
> > deflection, which
is
> > no where near total failure.
> >
> > Now in the case of the OP he's dealing with a "bonus room"
> > with "7' ceilings" which implies that he's probably got
> > collar ties to hang off
of
> > (if the ceiling is flat) or rafters/trusses (if the
> > ceiling is sloped).
If
> > they are indeed collar ties (usually 2x4s or 2x6s) or
> > trusses (which generally are made out of 2x4s) then he's
> > dealing with substantially
smaller
> > lumber. If they are rafters (i.e. 2x8s, 2x10s, 2x12s etc -
> > depending primarily what part of the country the house is
> > located in) then it's
just a
> > matter of figuring out what the snow/wind loads are and
> > how they effect
the
> > total load capacity.
> >
> > > If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good kick
> > > will wreck
joints
> > > in the drywall. You have to run supports between the
> > > joists and lock
the
> > > entire cealing together.
> >
> > You do? Why?
> >
> > > If you can access your attic this won't be very tough.
> > > But it will take some wood.
> >
> > There is no "attic" in the traditional sense above a bonus
> > room, since
by
> > definition, a bonus room IS the attic.
> >
> > > You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel
> > > hook through it
to
> > > run between two joists, brace those joists so three
> > > joists are tied together for a good section of the span
> > > and then put a circular
recessed
> > > lighting type of thing into the ceiling and hook through
> > > the empty
hole.
> > > The diameter has to be low enough it can swing.
> > >
> > > But I have one down in my basement running through a
> > > centre beam and
the
> > > entire house shakes when I use.
> >
> > The shaking is caused by the vibration of the beam, not
> > because it isn't braced well enough. Cross bracing
> > multiple joists is not going to significantly reduce
> > vibration transmission.
>
> When you kick a heavy bag you are loading the joist with far
> more than the weight of the bag.

Yes it is more than the weight of just the bag, but is it
enough to cause unacceptable deflection? Is it enough to cause
total failure? Depends upon all the parameters but in most all
cases I'd say no.

>What do you suggest would distribute the load to more than
>one joist if not bracing?

First off what are you trying to accomplish by distributing
the load? You have yours mounted to the central beam of your
home correct? What's the size of that beam? Lets say it's a
6x10 solid timber beam, so that's the lumber equavalent of (4)
2x10s. The solid timber is going to be stronger than 4
seperate joists ganged together. So when you mention bracing
joists together my reply is why? There's maybe some
miscommunication about what the bracing is going to do. It
will not significantly reduce deflection (bending of the
joist). It could however reduce the shear force by spreading
it out to other joists. If the bag is hung at one point then
your static load is going to be straight down. Hitting or
kicking the bag will cause shearing stress (lateral
deformation) but since it's hung from a chain that helps
reduce some of the shearing force into deflection (bending).
Also keep in mind that there already probably is some
"bracing" in the form of T&G subfloor (if there's a floor
above) and gypsum board (if the ceiling is finished). Also,
unsually both ends of the joist will be nailed to a rim
joists, which acts as a form of bracing (though it serves
other purposes too).

The shaking you experience is vibration caused by deflection
(within acceptable limits). I have a steel W6 beam that runs
down the center of my house. One end of my joists bares on the
exterior wall and the other on the center beam, and then from
the beam to the opposite exterior wall are other joists. When
I jump up and down on one side of the house and it's felt on
the other that doesn't mean that it's not braced properly. The
vibration is just being passed through the floor system (and
the walls and ceiling to a small extent). The amount of
bracing (and other special construction) required to totally
eliminate this would be insane (better would be a concrete
slab, which is very good in deflection, but piss poor is
torsion). Stand on a bridge as a car drives over it, you can
feel it (ignore the audible sound and wind). Obviously the
bridge is braced very well but yet you can feel a small car
drive over it but yet it's still strong enough to support the
weight of a bunch of full loaded semis stopped on it during
rush hour.

A better avenue to persue would be a vibration isolator (also
called isolation mount) that is used to reduce the
transmission of vibration and noise to the supporting
structure. Or even some form of resilient mounting "that
permits surfaces to vibrate normally without transmitting the
vibratory motions and associated noise to the supporting
structure" (as quoted from "A Visual Dictionary of
Architecture", Francis D.K. Ching -
p232)

Clear as mud?

Michael

[Keith Hobm]

In article <dCb5b.18902$Pd1.13795@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
"Spammers_Should_Be_Shot" <NoSpam@MyEmail.com> wrote:

> "Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> news:khobman-0209031823200001@192.168.1.100...
> > In article <fZ95b.36319$Jb1.24142@twister.rdc-kc.rr.com>,
> > "Spammers_Should_Be_Shot" <NoSpam@MyEmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > "Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> > > news:khobman-0209031257440001@192.168.0.2...
> > > > In article
> > > > <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
> > > > tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com (Don) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a
> > > > > bonus room
> upstars
> > > > > with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I was
> > > > > trying to figure
> the
> > > > > best way to mount it. I will be punching and kicking
> > > > > it. Will this jolting cause problems with my
> > > > > sheetrock or anything? The mounts I
> see
> > > > > at the store use two lag bolts to screw into a
> > > > > rafter. This holds a bracket that the bag hangs on.
> > > > >
> > > > > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as
> > > > > possible because the
> wife
> > > > > is not too thrilled about seing anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > Any help would be greatly appreciated!
> > > >
> > > > No way you can do this without strengthening your
> > > > joists, unless you
> have
> > > > a centre beam.
> > >
> > > Sure you can, though it depends upon what the load is
> > > the joist is
> carrying,
> > > it's span, and the size of the joist. The ceiling of my
> > > exercise room
> is
> > > 2x10s (@16" o.c. - not that it matters in this case
> > > though) with a span
> of
> > > 12 feet. With this size joist and this span deflection
> > > is acceptable
> with a
> > > point load of ~875 lbs. And that's just hanging it off
> > > one point on one joist. 2x10 joists with a 12' span have
> > > a load bearing capacity of ~73
> lbs.
> > > per lineal foot. And these numbers are for acceptable
> > > deflection, which
> is
> > > no where near total failure.
> > >
> > > Now in the case of the OP he's dealing with a "bonus
> > > room" with "7' ceilings" which implies that he's
> > > probably got collar ties to hang off
> of
> > > (if the ceiling is flat) or rafters/trusses (if the
> > > ceiling is sloped).
> If
> > > they are indeed collar ties (usually 2x4s or 2x6s) or
> > > trusses (which generally are made out of 2x4s) then he's
> > > dealing with substantially
> smaller
> > > lumber. If they are rafters (i.e. 2x8s, 2x10s, 2x12s etc
> > > - depending primarily what part of the country the house
> > > is located in) then it's
> just a
> > > matter of figuring out what the snow/wind loads are and
> > > how they effect
> the
> > > total load capacity.
> > >
> > > > If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good
> > > > kick will wreck
> joints
> > > > in the drywall. You have to run supports between the
> > > > joists and lock
> the
> > > > entire cealing together.
> > >
> > > You do? Why?
> > >
> > > > If you can access your attic this won't be very tough.
> > > > But it will take some wood.
> > >
> > > There is no "attic" in the traditional sense above a
> > > bonus room, since
> by
> > > definition, a bonus room IS the attic.
> > >
> > > > You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel
> > > > hook through it
> to
> > > > run between two joists, brace those joists so three
> > > > joists are tied together for a good section of the
> > > > span and then put a circular
> recessed
> > > > lighting type of thing into the ceiling and hook
> > > > through the empty
> hole.
> > > > The diameter has to be low enough it can swing.
> > > >
> > > > But I have one down in my basement running through a
> > > > centre beam and
> the
> > > > entire house shakes when I use.
> > >
> > > The shaking is caused by the vibration of the beam, not
> > > because it isn't braced well enough. Cross bracing
> > > multiple joists is not going to significantly reduce
> > > vibration transmission.
> >
> > When you kick a heavy bag you are loading the joist with
> > far more than the weight of the bag.
>
> Yes it is more than the weight of just the bag, but is it
> enough to cause unacceptable deflection? Is it enough to
> cause total failure? Depends upon all the parameters but in
> most all cases I'd say no.
>
> >What do you suggest would distribute the load to more than
> >one joist if not bracing?
>
> First off what are you trying to accomplish by distributing
> the load? You have yours mounted to the central beam of your
> home correct? What's the size of that beam? Lets say it's a
> 6x10 solid timber beam, so that's the lumber equavalent of
> (4) 2x10s. The solid timber is going to be stronger than 4
> seperate joists ganged together. So when you mention bracing
> joists together my reply is why? There's maybe some
> miscommunication about what the bracing is going to do. It
> will not significantly reduce deflection (bending of the
> joist). It could however reduce the shear force by spreading
> it out to other joists. If the bag is hung at one point then
> your static load is going to be straight down. Hitting or
> kicking the bag will cause shearing stress (lateral
> deformation) but since it's hung from a chain that helps
> reduce some of the shearing force into deflection (bending).
> Also keep in mind that there already probably is some
> "bracing" in the form of T&G subfloor (if there's a floor
> above) and gypsum board (if the ceiling is finished). Also,
> unsually both ends of the joist will be nailed to a rim
> joists, which acts as a form of bracing (though it serves
> other purposes too).
>
> The shaking you experience is vibration caused by deflection
> (within acceptable limits). I have a steel W6 beam that runs
> down the center of my house. One end of my joists bares on
> the exterior wall and the other on the center beam, and then
> from the beam to the opposite exterior wall are other
> joists. When I jump up and down on one side of the house and
> it's felt on the other that doesn't mean that it's not
> braced properly. The vibration is just being passed through
> the floor system (and the walls and ceiling to a small
> extent). The amount of bracing (and other special
> construction) required to totally eliminate this would be
> insane (better would be a concrete slab, which is very good
> in deflection, but piss poor is torsion). Stand on a bridge
> as a car drives over it, you can feel it (ignore the audible
> sound and wind). Obviously the bridge is braced very well
> but yet you can feel a small car drive over it but yet it's
> still strong enough to support the weight of a bunch of full
> loaded semis stopped on it during rush hour.
>
> A better avenue to persue would be a vibration isolator
> (also called isolation mount) that is used to reduce the
> transmission of vibration and noise to the supporting
> structure. Or even some form of resilient mounting "that
> permits surfaces to vibrate normally without transmitting
> the vibratory motions and associated noise to the supporting
> structure" (as quoted from "A Visual Dictionary of
> Architecture", Francis D.K. Ching -
> p232)
>
> Clear as mud?

Nope. Sounds reasonable. I personally don't have a problem
with vibration as I only train on the bag when no one is home.
I assumed in an upper room it would wreck the drywall.
Apparently I assumed RONG.

Won't be the last time. You learn something new everyday.

:^)

--
Keith Hobman

The email address above is a spam sink - no longer monitored

[Top Sirloi]

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:40:57 +0100, "Stephen Mulholland"
<stephenmulhollanduk@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>And Lyle would like a side-order of percentages with any
>response.

Your posting means your daughter is doing better?

Hoping,

--
Scott Johnson "Here's an idea of how you can change
global events: quit smoking pot long enough to register
to vote!" -ddt

[Wayne S. H]

Spammers_Should_Be_Shot wrote:

>
> "Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote in message
> news:khobman-0209031823200001@192.168.1.100...
>> "Spammers_Should_Be_Shot" <NoSpam@MyEmail.com> wrote:
>> > "Keith Hobman" <khobman@sasktel.net> wrote...
>> > > (Don) wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
>> > > > because the wife is not too thrilled about seing
>> > > > anything.
>> > >
>> > > No way you can do this without strengthening your
>> > > joists, unless you have a centre beam.
>> >
>> > Sure you can, though it depends upon what the load is the
>> > joist is carrying, it's span, and the size of the joist.
>> > The ceiling of my exercise room is 2x10s (@16" o.c. - not
>> > that it matters in this case though) with a span of 12
>> > feet. With this size joist and this span deflection is
>> > acceptable with a point load of ~875 lbs. And that's just
>> > hanging it off one point on one joist. 2x10 joists with a
>> > 12' span have a load bearing capacity of ~73 lbs. per
>> > lineal foot. And these numbers are for acceptable
>> > deflection, which is no where near total failure.
>> >
>> > Now in the case of the OP he's dealing with a "bonus
>> > room" with "7' ceilings" which implies that he's probably
>> > got collar ties to hang off of (if the ceiling is flat)
>> > or rafters/trusses (if the ceiling is sloped). If they
>> > are indeed collar ties (usually 2x4s or 2x6s) or trusses
>> > (which generally are made out of 2x4s) then he's dealing
>> > with substantially smaller lumber. If they are rafters
>> > (i.e. 2x8s, 2x10s, 2x12s etc - depending primarily what
>> > part of the country the house is located in) then
>> > it's just a matter of figuring out what the
>> > snow/wind loads are and how they effect the total
>> > load capacity.
>> >
>> > > If you just put leg bolts into the joist every good
>> > > kick will wreck joints in the drywall. You have to run
>> > > supports between the joists and lock the entire cealing
>> > > together.
>> >
>> > You do? Why?

Because the loading on a single joist will allow the lateral
joist deflection to crack the drywall.

>> > > If you can access your attic this won't be very tough.
>> > > But it will take some wood.
>> >
>> > There is no "attic" in the traditional sense above a
>> > bonus room, since by definition, a bonus room IS the
>> > attic.
>> >
>> > > You may want to get a metal brace made with a swivel
>> > > hook through it to run between two joists, brace those
>> > > joists so three joists are tied together for a good
>> > > section of the span and then put a circular recessed
>> > > lighting type of thing into the ceiling and hook
>> > > through the empty hole. The diameter has to be low
>> > > enough it can swing.
>> > >
>> > > But I have one down in my basement running through a
>> > > centre beam and the entire house shakes when I use.
>> >
>> > The shaking is caused by the vibration of the beam, not
>> > because it isn't braced well enough.

Think about that. If the vibration is at an undesirable level,
then the structure isn't stiff enough against the loading.

>> > Cross bracing multiple joists is not going to
>> > significantly reduce vibration transmission.

Actually, it will substantially reduce the vibration
transmission, because the part of the structure the bag is
acting on will be substantially heavier and and stiffer.

>> When you kick a heavy bag you are loading the joist with
>> far more than the weight of the bag.
>
> Yes it is more than the weight of just the bag, but is it
> enough to cause unacceptable deflection? Is it enough to
> cause total failure? Depends upon all the parameters but in
> most all cases I'd say no.

Keith never said that you'd break joists, so this is a red
herring. I wouldn't worry about failure of a joist (unless the
joist is already cracked, or the fastener compromises the
bottom fibers of the joist, which are loaded in tension. The
real issue is cracking of sheet rock.

>>What do you suggest would distribute the load to more than
>>one joist if not bracing?
>
> First off what are you trying to accomplish by distributing
> the load? You have yours mounted to the central beam of your
> home correct? What's the size of that beam? Lets say it's a
> 6x10 solid timber beam, so that's the lumber equavalent of
> (4) 2x10s. The solid timber is going to be stronger than 4
> seperate joists ganged together.

Untrue. Ganging 2x10's produces a structure that is stronger
than a solid timber, because cracks and checks in one piece
don't propagate into its neighbors. A solid timber will
deflect less laterally, but not in the intended load
direction.

> So when you mention bracing joists together my reply is why?

One reason would be to limit lateral deflection of a
joist, which could crack the ceiling. Another reason would
be to increase the effective mass of the structure the bag
bears upon.

> There's maybe some miscommunication about what the bracing
> is going to do. It will not significantly reduce deflection
> (bending of the joist).

You're thinking simplistically. Bending of the joist in a
vertical plane is probably not the issue here. In the lateral
direction, ganging joists will substantially reduce
deflection.

> It could however reduce the shear force by spreading it out
> to other joists. If the bag is hung at one point then your
> static load is going to be straight down. Hitting or kicking
> the bag will cause shearing stress (lateral deformation) but
> since it's hung from a chain that helps reduce some of the
> shearing force into deflection (bending).

Shear? Away from the walls, shear is not important. Lateral
load is still largely a bending load, as far as a joist is
concerned.

A chain may (or may not) reduce the lateral load (depends on
dynamics), but that doesn't change the fact that you could
crack the ceiling with a strong kick if the bag is hung from a
single joist. I'd suggest spanning 3 joists, personally.

> Also keep in mind that there already probably is some
> "bracing" in the form of T&G subfloor (if there's a floor
> above) and gypsum board (if the ceiling is finished).

Over the long haul, gypsum board will not help with this kind
of loading. It will gladly crack to relieve such loading.

> Also, unsually both ends of the joist will be nailed to a
> rim joists, which acts as a form of bracing (though it
> serves other purposes too).

That may or may not help. Joists, studs, ring beams, etc. all
move somewhat relative to one another, so some motion could
occur that cracks sheetrock.

> A better avenue to persue would be a vibration isolator
> (also called isolation mount) that is used to reduce the
> transmission of vibration and noise to the supporting
> structure. Or even some form of resilient mounting "that
> permits surfaces to vibrate normally without transmitting
> the vibratory motions and associated noise to the supporting
> structure" (as quoted from "A Visual Dictionary of
> Architecture", Francis D.K. Ching - p232)

Please tell me what kind of vibration isolator will damp kicks
to a heavy bag.

--
-Wayne

[Lyle McDon]

"Wayne S. Hill" wrote:

> Please tell me what kind of vibration isolator will damp
> kicks to a heavy bag.

The same kind (my nerd skills are down, don't recall the
made-up name for it) that lets a Federation starship
accelerate to warp speeds without pureeing the crew.

Lyle

[Lyle McDon]

Lyle McDonald wrote:
>
> "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
>
> > Please tell me what kind of vibration isolator will damp
> > kicks to a heavy bag.
>
> The same kind (my nerd skills are down, don't recall the
> made-up name for it) that lets a Federation starship
> accelerate to warp speeds without pureeing the crew.

got it:

inertial dampener

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Star+trek+inertial+dampener-
&fr=fp-top

To read more.

Lyle

[Lee Michae]

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3F564A1B.75B75E3@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> Lyle McDonald wrote:
> >
> > "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
> >
> > > Please tell me what kind of vibration isolator will damp
> > > kicks to a heavy bag.
> >
> > The same kind (my nerd skills are down, don't recall the
> > made-up name for it) that lets a Federation starship
> > accelerate to warp speeds without pureeing the crew.
>
> got it:
>
> inertial dampener
>
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Star+trek+inertial+dampene-
> r&fr=fp-top
>
> To read more.
>
But where can you buy one?

[Wayne S. H]

Lyle McDonald wrote:

> Lyle McDonald wrote:
>> "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
>>
>> > Please tell me what kind of vibration isolator will damp
>> > kicks to a heavy bag.
>>
>> The same kind (my nerd skills are down, don't recall the
>> made-up name for it) that lets a Federation starship
>> accelerate to warp speeds without pureeing the crew.
>
> got it:
>
> inertial dampener
>
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Star+trek+inertial+dampene-
> r& fr=fp-top
>
> To read more.

That's about what it would take to damp a heavy bag.

--
-Wayne

[Lyle McDon]

Lee Michaels wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> message news:3F564A1B.75B75E3@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > Lyle McDonald wrote:
> > >
> > > "Wayne S. Hill" wrote:
> > >
> > > > Please tell me what kind of vibration isolator will
> > > > damp kicks to a heavy bag.
> > >
> > > The same kind (my nerd skills are down, don't recall the
> > > made-up name for it) that lets a Federation starship
> > > accelerate to warp speeds without pureeing the crew.
> >
> > got it:
> >
> > inertial dampener
> >
> > http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=Star+trek+inertial+dampe-
> > ner&fr=fp-top
> >
> > To read more.
> >
> But where can you buy one?

Put some money in an interest generating bank account. Get a
time machine. Travel to the 24th century (or whenever
"Enterprise" is set, I'm assuming that would be roughly when
the inertial dampener had been perfected sinec Scott Bakula
is still alive). Buy one with the money from the interest
bearing account.

Lyle

[Richard J]

Don writes:

> I woul dlike the mount to be as invisable as possible
> because the wife is not too thrilled about seing anything.

I have successfully made several ceiling hoist points to hang
upwards of 1000 lbs (yes, one thousand pounds), using 5 feet
of SuperStrut laid across several ceiling joists. Doesn't
weaken the joists with drilling or screw- driving. Doesn't
flex or crack the drywall under load.

Lay strut across joists in the attic. Drop 1/2 inch threaded
rod through a
1/2 inch hole in the drywall, fix with washer and nut on the
top (above the strut) and the bottom (below the drywall).
Use a threaded rod coupler to attach a 1/2 inch eye to the
end of the rod. The rod can project as little as 1 inch down
from the ceiling, and you can just unscrew the eye, leaving
just a bit of rod when you need to minimize the appearance.
You could also make a cover or other hiding device and paint
it to match the ceiling.

See my page: http://www.truetex.com/movemill.htm

[Mjl]

On Tue, 02 Sep 2003 14:28:05 -0500, Lyle McDonald
<lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:

>Keith Hobman wrote:
>>
>> In article <3F54E981.81112203@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
>> lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:
>
>> > Should it be periodized and, if so, how?
>>
>> See above. If interested you can get BOTH books at the
>> one-time low price of $349.99.
>>
>> Because its you, man. Or anyone else for that matter.
>
>i'm feeling the love right now. Hot Canadian love.
>
>Lyle

The hot back bacon can't be far behind.

[Steve Gomb]

In article <e647cf2.0309021006.208a8481@posting.google.com>,
Don <tiredofthis12001@yahoo.com> wrote:
>I have an 80lb or so heavy bag. We just finished a bonus room
>upstars with painted ceilings and 7 foot ceilings. I was
>trying to figure the best way to mount it. I will be punching
>and kicking it. Will this jolting cause problems with my
>sheetrock or anything? The mounts I see at the store use two
>lag bolts to screw into a rafter. This holds a bracket that
>the bag hangs on.

Have you considered getting a bag stand instead? That way, you
wouldn't have to do *anything* to the house. Sure, they're
kind of expensive - but it beats sleeping on the couch.

Steve