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Shadow-Spi

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:12

yes i know other research has said other ways are better but
after review it was not enough to change the minds of the
USFDA ( center for food safety and applied nutrition or the
American Diabetes Association.)

Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid

http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid/foo-
dpyramid.jsp

The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food groups.
These sections vary in size. The largest group -- grains,
beans, and starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means
that you should eat more servings of grains, beans, and
starchy vegetables than of any of the other foods. The
smallest group -- fats, sweets, and alcohol -- is at the top
of the pyramid. This tells you to eat very few servings from
these food groups.

Eat servings from all the food groups other than the fats,
sweets, and alcohol, every day. Eat the recommended number of
servings on the pyramid within each food group. The exact
number of servings you need depends on your diabetes goals,
calorie and nutrition needs, your lifestyle, and the foods you
like to eat. Divide the number of servings you should eat
among the meals and snacks you eat each day. The Diabetes Food
Pyramid makes it easier to remember what to eat. For a healthy
meal plan that is based on your individual needs, you should
work with a registered dietitian (RD) with expertise in
diabetes management. To find an RD with diabetes expertise,
read the section below titled For More Help and Support.

The First Step

For most people, a great first step to healthier eating habits
is to make a few simple changes. Perhaps you decide to eat
more fruits and vegetables and to go lighter on the meats and
sweets. If you make these changes and stick to them, pat
yourself on the back. Before you make more changes, make sure
you maintain the ones you have made. When you are ready,
decide on the next change. Keep it easy to accomplish.

As you continue to change your eating habits to manage your
diabetes, the diabetes food pyramid can help you and your
whole family eat healthier. Here are some more healthy
eating tips:

a.. Eat a wide variety of foods every day. Try new foods.
Eating a wide variety of foods, even from the same food
group, helps you get all the nutrients to be in good
health. For example, within the fruit group, bananas are a
good source of potassium and oranges are a good source of
vitamin C.

b.. Be physically active every day. Try to accumulate
30 minutes of physical activity each day. Start
slowly, by taking the stairs and walking more, or
doing more yardwork.

c.. Eat high-fiber foods such as fruits, vegetables, whole
grains and beans. These are the foods you should
primarily eat. They provide lots of vitamins, minerals,
and fiber, yet they provide the least concentrated
sources of calories.

d.. Use less added fat. It is well known that eating many
foods that are high in fat, particularly ones with too
much saturated fat and dietary cholesterol, can contribute
to the development of clogged and narrowed arteries. This
can lead to heart disease and people with diabetes are at
an even greater risk for developing heart disease.

e.. Use less added sugar. Sugary foods, like jelly beans and
regular soft drinks, and sweets, like ice cream and
cookies, are not healthy for anyone. They provide a bunch
of calories with little or no nutrients. Yet sugary foods
and sweets are enjoyable to eat. Strike a balance --
practice moderation.

f.. Use less added salt and sodium. Americans eat more salt
and sodium than they need. Most of the sodium we eat comes
from processed foods like cold cuts, prepared foods,
canned soups, and pickles. To keep your salt and sodium
intake moderate, shake the salt shaker lightly and use
more fresh and unprocessed foods.

g.. If you choose to drink alcohol, limit the amount and
drink it with food. Check with your health care
professional about an amount that's safe for you. Next
Step ... Learn More

Starches and Diabetes

Eat more starches! It is healthiest for everyone to eat more
whole grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas,
corn, potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you
because they have very little fat, saturated fat, or
cholesterol.

Vegetables and Diabetes

When it comes to vegetables, people with diabetes should
eat at least three servings a day. Vegetables are healthy,
chock full of vitamins and minerals, and some give you much
needed fiber. The best part: vegetables are naturally low
in calories.

Fruit and Diabetes Questions about fruit keep coming up. Will
fruit juice increase blood glucose levels more quickly than a
piece of fruit? Should you avoid fruit in the morning because
your blood glucose might be higher than at other times in the
day? Is it better to eat fruit with meals rather than snacks?

Milk and Diabetes People with diabetes are at the same risk
for osteoporosis as the general public. Fat-free (skim) and
low-fat (1%) milk and yogurt will provide the calcium you need
without saturated fat and cholesterol.

Protein (Meat, Poultry, Seafood, Cheese, Eggs, Etc.) and
Diabetes

People with diabetes have no less or more need for protein
than the general public. The American Diabetes Association
nutrition guidelines suggest eating between 10 and 20% of your
calories as protein. The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for
protein is 0.8 grams per kilogram of body weight.

Fat and Diabetes

Fat ought to make up about 30% of your calories. The total
amount of fat you eat should be based on the foods you like
and your goals for eating healthy and blood lipid (blood fats)
and glucose control. You need an individualized meal plan.

Sugar and Diabetes

Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars, like
table sugar, do not raise blood glucose any more quickly
than do other carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or
pasta. This research holds true for people with type 1
and type 2 diabetes.

Alcohol and Diabetes

Beyond all the health and safety concerns about alcohol, if
you have diabetes and are on diabetes medications that lower
blood glucose, you need to practice caution. The action of
insulin and some diabetes pills, sulfonylureas and
meglitinides (Prandin), is to lower blood glucose by making
more insulin. So, you should not drink when your blood glucose
is low or when your stomach is empty.

For More Help and Support

To find out exactly how much of what types of foods you should
eat, we suggest you work with a registered dietitian (RD) who
has experience working with people who have diabetes. This
person can help support your efforts to change your eating
habits and control your blood glucose level. To find a
registered dietitian near you:

1. Locate the names of American Diabetes Association
Recognized Diabetes Education Programs in your area or call
1-800-DIABETES (1-800-342-2383).

2. Call The American Dietetic Association at 1-800-366-1655.
Ask for the names of dietitians in your area that
specialize in diabetes.

3. Call the American Association of Diabetes Educators, at
1-800-TEAM-UP4 (1-800-832-6874). Ask for the names of
several diabetes educators in your zip code.

--
http://www.diabetes.org Shadow-Spirit 39 - Male - Type - 2
Dx'd January 27, 2003 330lbs now 264 A1C = 5.1 July 15

Arnie Macy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:13

"Shadow-Spirit" (aka Sushi Boy CheeseBurger Copulator) quoted
the ADA in part ...

you get all the nutrients to be in good health. For example,
within the fruit group, bananas are a good source of
potassium and oranges are a good source of vitamin C.
_____________________________________________________________-
_______________

Hmmmm, interesting. A banana has about 29 carbs, and a high
glysemic index (meaning it converts to sugar *very*
quickly). For example, sugar has an index of 75 and a banana
has an index of 60. I wonder if the ADA forgot about this,
or just doesn't care about what this type of food will do to
a BG. Well, I guess they think that as long as you are under
180 2 hrs PP, everything is hokey dokey. Or so they say on
their web site.

Arnie -

Julie Bove

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:13

"Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
news:bh4dbh$tv3ht$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Shadow-Spirit" (aka Sushi Boy CheeseBurger Copulator)
> quoted the ADA in part ...
>
> you get all the nutrients to be in good health. For
> example, within the fruit group, bananas are a good source
> of potassium and oranges are a good source of vitamin C.
>
_____________________________________________________________-
_______________
>
> Hmmmm, interesting. A banana has about 29 carbs, and a high
> glysemic
index
> (meaning it converts to sugar *very* quickly). For example,
> sugar has an index of 75 and a banana has an index of 60. I
> wonder if the ADA forgot about this, or just doesn't care
> about what this type of food will do to a BG. Well, I guess
> they think that as long as you are under 180 2 hrs PP,
> everything is hokey dokey. Or so they say on their web site.

Yeah, but check to see what a serving size is. 1/2 of a small
banana is considered a serving.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Arnie Macy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:13

"Julie Bove" wrote ...

Yeah, but check to see what a serving size is. 1/2 of a small
banana is considered a serving.
___________________________________________________________-
__________

Okay, Julie. That would be 14 gms carb and the Glycemic index
would stay the same. No different than eating a slice of white
bread or about 11 gms of pure sugar.

Arnie -

Julie Bove

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:13

"Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
news:bh4gqs$uch6r$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...
> "Julie Bove" wrote ...
>
> Yeah, but check to see what a serving size is. 1/2 of a
> small banana is considered a serving.
> ___________________________________________________________-
> __________
>
> Okay, Julie. That would be 14 gms carb and the Glycemic
> index would stay the same. No different than eating a slice
> of white bread or about 11 gms of pure sugar.

Yes there is. Potassium! *L*

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Shadow-Spi

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:13

"Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
news:bh4gqs$uch6r$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...
: "Julie Bove" wrote ...
:
: Yeah, but check to see what a serving size is. 1/2 of a
: small banana is considered a serving.
: ___________________________________________________________-
: __________
:
: Okay, Julie. That would be 14 gms carb and the Glycemic
: index would stay the same. No different than eating a slice
: of white bread or about 11 gms of pure sugar.
:
: Arnie -
:

LOL - Arnie if you think there is no difference between
bananas, white bread and sugar. lol i suggest you see a
dietitian - you have a lot to learn - do you just copy and
paste the information you post? because everytime i see you
talk i think to my self - how can he understand the other
posts if he cant understand this. Arnie you are free to post
here but please see a dietitian - your diet must be a mess.
bye the way did you read the warnings that the ADA says about
high protein diets? il be posting a link to that soon. lol
also just wondering - if i keep changing names are you always
going to keep adding the ADA opps i mean AKA thing? Shadow

Arnie Macy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:13

"Julie Bove" wrote ...

Yes there is. Potassium! *L*
_____________________________________________________________-
___

Yep, you are certainly right about that. :-))

Arnie -

Ronnie Ruf

Sun, Aug-10-03, 05:13

Shadow-Spirit scribbled these tid bits

> LOL - Arnie if you think there is no difference between
> bananas, white bread and sugar. lol i suggest you see a
> dietitian

He never said any such thing.

> do you just copy and paste the information you post? because
> everytime i see you talk

You see him "talk"? where?

> Arnie you are free to post here

He needs your permission?

> but please see a dietitian - your diet must be a mess. bye
> the way did you read the warnings that the ADA says about
> high protein diets

The ADA "says" warnings? Or do they "issue them"?

> il be posting a link to that soon.

Who will?

> lol also just wondering - if i keep changing names are you
> always going to keep adding the ADA opps i mean AKA thing?

Who cares what you do?

--
"If the Lord can see his way clear to bless the Republican
Party the way it's been carrying on, then the rest of us
ought to get it without even asking." - Will Rogers
-----------------------------------------------
http://www.livejournal.com/users/ronnie_in_dc

Lisa N

Sun, Aug-10-03, 13:22

Quote from the bottom of the page in the link above:

"Taken from the August 1999 issue of Diabetes Forecast. Written by Hope S. Warshaw, MMSc, RD, CDE, a nationally recognized expert on healthy eating and diabetes."

This is current????? That was written 4 years ago! This may be what is currently posted on their official webpage, but it's hardly current information based on recent studies.

Jenny

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

The American Diabetes Association. Proudly killing people with
diabetes throughout the decades.

One only hopes that the people in the organization who put out
this dietary advice crap will take their own advice, die, and
make room for some people who actually know something about
controlling diabetes through diet to come into the
organization.

But since they're funded by the companies that reap huge
profits off of the elevated blood sugars their "diabetic diet"
causes, I'm not holding my breath.

-- Jenny
168.5/138.5 30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001
and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate
your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for
Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low
Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? *
Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero * NEW! Do
Starch Blockers Work?

"Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:1060480362.295023@nntp.acecape.com...
>
> yes i know other research has said other ways are better but
> after review it was not enough to change the minds of the
> USFDA ( center for food safety and applied nutrition or
the American Diabetes Association.)
>
>
> Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid
>
> http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid/f-
> oodpyramid.jsp
>
> The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food
> groups. These
sections vary in size. The largest group -- grains, beans, and
> starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means that you
> should eat
more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables than
> of any of the other foods. The smallest group -- fats,
> sweets, and
alcohol -- is at the top of the pyramid. This tells you to eat
> very few servings from these food groups.
>
> Eat servings from all the food groups other than the fats,
> sweets, and
alcohol, every day. Eat the recommended number of servings
> on the pyramid within each food group. The exact number of
> servings you
need depends on your diabetes goals, calorie and nutrition
> needs, your lifestyle, and the foods you like to eat. Divide
> the number
of servings you should eat among the meals and snacks you
> eat each day. The Diabetes Food Pyramid makes it easier to
> remember what
to eat. For a healthy meal plan that is based on your
> individual needs, you should work with a registered
> dietitian (RD) with
expertise in diabetes management. To find an RD with
> diabetes expertise, read the section below titled For More
> Help and
Support.
>
> The First Step
>
> For most people, a great first step to healthier eating
> habits is to make
a few simple changes. Perhaps you decide to eat more
> fruits and vegetables and to go lighter on the meats and
> sweets. If you
make these changes and stick to them, pat yourself on the
> back. Before you make more changes, make sure you maintain
> the ones you
have made. When you are ready, decide on the next change.
> Keep it easy to accomplish.
>
> As you continue to change your eating habits to manage your
> diabetes, the
diabetes food pyramid can help you and your whole family
> eat healthier. Here are some more healthy eating tips:
>
> a.. Eat a wide variety of foods every day. Try new foods.
> Eating a
wide variety of foods, even from the same food group, helps
> you get all the nutrients to be in good health. For example,
> within the
fruit group, bananas are a good source of potassium and
> oranges are a good source of vitamin C.
>
>
> b.. Be physically active every day. Try to accumulate 30
> minutes of
physical activity each day. Start slowly, by taking the
> stairs and walking more, or doing more yardwork.
>
>
> c.. Eat high-fiber foods such as fruits, vegetables, whole
> grains and
beans. These are the foods you should primarily eat. They
> provide lots of vitamins, minerals, and fiber, yet they
> provide the least
concentrated sources of calories.
>
>
> d.. Use less added fat. It is well known that eating many
> foods that
are high in fat, particularly ones with too much saturated
> fat and dietary cholesterol, can contribute to the
> development of clogged
and narrowed arteries. This can lead to heart disease and
> people with diabetes are at an even greater risk for
> developing heart
disease.
>
>
> e.. Use less added sugar. Sugary foods, like jelly beans
> and regular
soft drinks, and sweets, like ice cream and cookies, are
> not healthy for anyone. They provide a bunch of calories
> with little or
no nutrients. Yet sugary foods and sweets are enjoyable to
> eat. Strike a balance -- practice moderation.
>
>
> f.. Use less added salt and sodium. Americans eat more
> salt and sodium
than they need. Most of the sodium we eat comes from
> processed foods like cold cuts, prepared foods, canned
> soups, and pickles.
To keep your salt and sodium intake moderate, shake the
> salt shaker lightly and use more fresh and unprocessed
> foods.
>
>
> g.. If you choose to drink alcohol, limit the amount and
> drink it with
food. Check with your health care professional about an
> amount that's safe for you. Next Step ... Learn More
>
> Starches and Diabetes
>
> Eat more starches! It is healthiest for everyone to eat
> more whole
grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas, corn,
> potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you
> because they have
very little fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol.
>
>
> Vegetables and Diabetes
>
> When it comes to vegetables, people with diabetes should eat
> at least
three servings a day. Vegetables are healthy, chock full of
> vitamins and minerals, and some give you much needed fiber.
> The best
part: vegetables are naturally low in calories.
>
>
>
> Fruit and Diabetes Questions about fruit keep coming up.
> Will fruit juice increase blood
glucose levels more quickly than a piece of fruit? Should
> you avoid fruit in the morning because your blood glucose
> might be higher
than at other times in the day? Is it better to eat fruit
> with meals rather than snacks?
>
> Milk and Diabetes People with diabetes are at the same risk
> for osteoporosis as the general
public. Fat-free (skim) and low-fat (1%) milk and yogurt
> will provide the calcium you need without saturated fat and
> cholesterol.
>
>
> Protein (Meat, Poultry, Seafood, Cheese, Eggs, Etc.) and
> Diabetes
>
> People with diabetes have no less or more need for protein
> than the
general public. The American Diabetes Association nutrition
> guidelines suggest eating between 10 and 20% of your
> calories as protein.
The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for protein is 0.8
> grams per kilogram of body weight.
>
> Fat and Diabetes
>
> Fat ought to make up about 30% of your calories. The total
> amount of fat
you eat should be based on the foods you like and your
> goals for eating healthy and blood lipid (blood fats) and
> glucose control.
You need an individualized meal plan.
>
> Sugar and Diabetes
>
> Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars, like
> table sugar, do
not raise blood glucose any more quickly than do other
> carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta. This research
> holds true for
people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes.
>
> Alcohol and Diabetes
>
> Beyond all the health and safety concerns about alcohol, if
> you have
diabetes and are on diabetes medications that lower blood
> glucose, you need to practice caution. The action of insulin
> and some
diabetes pills, sulfonylureas and meglitinides (Prandin), is
> to lower blood glucose by making more insulin. So, you
> should not drink
when your blood glucose is low or when your stomach is
> empty.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For More Help and Support
>
> To find out exactly how much of what types of foods you
> should eat, we
suggest you work with a registered dietitian (RD) who has
> experience working with people who have diabetes. This
> person can help
support your efforts to change your eating habits and control
> your blood glucose level. To find a registered dietitian
> near you:
>
> 1. Locate the names of American Diabetes Association
> Recognized Diabetes
Education Programs in your area or call 1-800-DIABETES
> (1-800-342-2383).
>
> 2. Call The American Dietetic Association at 1-800-366-1655.
> Ask for the
names of dietitians in your area that specialize in
> diabetes.
>
> 3. Call the American Association of Diabetes Educators, at
> 1-800-TEAM-UP4
(1-800-832-6874). Ask for the names of several diabetes
> educators in your zip code.
>
>
> --
> http://www.diabetes.org Shadow-Spirit 39 - Male - Type - 2
> Dx'd January 27, 2003 330lbs now 264 A1C = 5.1 July 15

Tony Lew

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:<1060480362.295023@nntp.acecape.com>...
> yes i know other research has said other ways are better but
> after review it was not enough to change the minds of the
> USFDA ( center for food safety and applied nutrition or the
> American Diabetes Association.)
>
>
> Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid
>
> http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid/f-
> oodpyramid.jsp
>
> The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food groups.
> These sections vary in size. The largest group -- grains,
> beans, and starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This
> means that you should eat more servings of grains, beans,
> and starchy vegetables than of any of the other foods

<deletia>

> Sugar and Diabetes
>
> Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars, like
> table sugar, do not raise blood glucose any more quickly
> than do other carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta.
> This research holds true for people with type 1 and type 2
> diabetes.

Another way of phrasing this would be "Other carbohydrates
like potatoes, rice and pasta raise blood glucose just a
quickly as sugars like table sugar". Hmmm, so they're
telling you to eat a diet heavy on starches, then admit
that starches are equivalent to table sugar in affecting
blood glucose. This is preposterous. I'm starting to think
the ADA is a shill for the drug companies; they're
recommending a diet that is guaranteed to make diabetics
need more glucophage, glipizide, etc to control their
blood glucose.

Stephanie

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful to
anyone. You might want to remember that some diabetics do well
on the ADA recommended diet. Others do not. I'm happy that you
have found a way of eating that works for you. If you do not
support the ADA, and their efforts to help diabetes education
and research, then so be it. However, I think it is tacky to
accuse them of "proudly killing people with diabetes
throughout the decades." Steph

"Jenny" <jenny_the_bean@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bh5f01$6a5$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> The American Diabetes Association. Proudly killing people
> with diabetes throughout the decades.
>
> One only hopes that the people in the organization who put
> out this
dietary
> advice crap will take their own advice, die, and make room
> for some people who actually know something about
> controlling diabetes through diet to
come
> into the organization.
>
> But since they're funded by the companies that reap huge
> profits off of
the
> elevated blood sugars their "diabetic diet" causes, I'm not
> holding my breath.
>
> -- Jenny
> 168.5/138.5 30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001
> and 11/10/02 - Now
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate
> your need for protein * How much people really lose each
> month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure"
> for Hunger
Cravings
> * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low
> Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? *
> Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero * NEW! Do
> Starch Blockers Work?
>
>
> "Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net> wrote
> in message news:1060480362.295023@nntp.acecape.com...
> >
> > yes i know other research has said other ways are better
> > but after review it was not enough to change the minds
> > of the USFDA ( center for food safety and applied
> > nutrition or
> the American Diabetes Association.)
> >
> >
> > Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid
> >
> >
http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid/foo-
dpyramid.jsp
> >
> > The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food
> > groups. These
> sections vary in size. The largest group -- grains,
> beans, and
> > starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means that
> > you should eat
> more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables than
> > of any of the other foods. The smallest group -- fats,
> > sweets, and
> alcohol -- is at the top of the pyramid. This tells
> you to eat
> > very few servings from these food groups.
> >
> > Eat servings from all the food groups other than the fats,
> > sweets, and
> alcohol, every day. Eat the recommended number of servings
> > on the pyramid within each food group. The exact number of
> > servings you
> need depends on your diabetes goals, calorie and nutrition
> > needs, your lifestyle, and the foods you like to eat.
> > Divide the number
> of servings you should eat among the meals and snacks you
> > eat each day. The Diabetes Food Pyramid makes it easier to
> > remember
what
> to eat. For a healthy meal plan that is based on your
> > individual needs, you should work with a registered
> > dietitian (RD) with
> expertise in diabetes management. To find an RD with
> > diabetes expertise, read the section below titled For More
> > Help and
> Support.
> >
> > The First Step
> >
> > For most people, a great first step to healthier eating
> > habits is to
make
> a few simple changes. Perhaps you decide to eat more
> > fruits and vegetables and to go lighter on the meats and
> > sweets. If you
> make these changes and stick to them, pat yourself on the
> > back. Before you make more changes, make sure you maintain
> > the ones you
> have made. When you are ready, decide on the next change.
> > Keep it easy to accomplish.
> >
> > As you continue to change your eating habits to manage
> > your diabetes,
the
> diabetes food pyramid can help you and your whole family
> > eat healthier. Here are some more healthy eating tips:
> >
> > a.. Eat a wide variety of foods every day. Try new
> > foods. Eating a
> wide variety of foods, even from the same food group, helps
> > you get all the nutrients to be in good health. For
> > example, within the
> fruit group, bananas are a good source of potassium and
> > oranges are a good source of vitamin C.
> >
> >
> > b.. Be physically active every day. Try to accumulate 30
> > minutes of
> physical activity each day. Start slowly, by taking the
> > stairs and walking more, or doing more yardwork.
> >
> >
> > c.. Eat high-fiber foods such as fruits, vegetables,
> > whole grains and
> beans. These are the foods you should primarily eat. They
> > provide lots of vitamins, minerals, and fiber, yet they
> > provide the
least
> concentrated sources of calories.
> >
> >
> > d.. Use less added fat. It is well known that eating
> > many foods that
> are high in fat, particularly ones with too much saturated
> > fat and dietary cholesterol, can contribute to the
> > development of
clogged
> and narrowed arteries. This can lead to heart disease and
> > people with diabetes are at an even greater risk for
> > developing heart
> disease.
> >
> >
> > e.. Use less added sugar. Sugary foods, like jelly beans
> > and regular
> soft drinks, and sweets, like ice cream and cookies, are
> > not healthy for anyone. They provide a bunch of calories
> > with little or
> no nutrients. Yet sugary foods and sweets are enjoyable to
> > eat. Strike a balance -- practice moderation.
> >
> >
> > f.. Use less added salt and sodium. Americans eat more
> > salt and
sodium
> than they need. Most of the sodium we eat comes from
> > processed foods like cold cuts, prepared foods, canned
> > soups, and
pickles.
> To keep your salt and sodium intake moderate, shake the
> > salt shaker lightly and use more fresh and unprocessed
> > foods.
> >
> >
> > g.. If you choose to drink alcohol, limit the amount and
> > drink it with
> food. Check with your health care professional about an
> > amount that's safe for you. Next Step ... Learn More
> >
> > Starches and Diabetes
> >
> > Eat more starches! It is healthiest for everyone to eat
> > more whole
> grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas, corn,
> > potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you
> > because they have
> very little fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol.
> >
> >
> > Vegetables and Diabetes
> >
> > When it comes to vegetables, people with diabetes should
> > eat at least
> three servings a day. Vegetables are healthy, chock full of
> > vitamins and minerals, and some give you much needed
> > fiber. The best
> part: vegetables are naturally low in calories.
> >
> >
> >
> > Fruit and Diabetes Questions about fruit keep coming up.
> > Will fruit juice increase blood
> glucose levels more quickly than a piece of fruit? Should
> > you avoid fruit in the morning because your blood glucose
> > might be
higher
> than at other times in the day? Is it better to eat fruit
> > with meals rather than snacks?
> >
> > Milk and Diabetes People with diabetes are at the same
> > risk for osteoporosis as the
general
> public. Fat-free (skim) and low-fat (1%) milk and yogurt
> > will provide the calcium you need without saturated fat
> > and cholesterol.
> >
> >
> > Protein (Meat, Poultry, Seafood, Cheese, Eggs, Etc.) and
> > Diabetes
> >
> > People with diabetes have no less or more need for protein
> > than the
> general public. The American Diabetes Association nutrition
> > guidelines suggest eating between 10 and 20% of your
> > calories as
protein.
> The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for protein is 0.8
> > grams per kilogram of body weight.
> >
> > Fat and Diabetes
> >
> > Fat ought to make up about 30% of your calories. The total
> > amount of fat
> you eat should be based on the foods you like and your
> > goals for eating healthy and blood lipid (blood fats) and
> > glucose
control.
> You need an individualized meal plan.
> >
> > Sugar and Diabetes
> >
> > Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars, like
> > table sugar, do
> not raise blood glucose any more quickly than do other
> > carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta. This research
> > holds true
for
> people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes.
> >
> > Alcohol and Diabetes
> >
> > Beyond all the health and safety concerns about alcohol,
> > if you have
> diabetes and are on diabetes medications that lower blood
> > glucose, you need to practice caution. The action of
> > insulin and some
> diabetes pills, sulfonylureas and meglitinides (Prandin), is
> > to lower blood glucose by making more insulin. So, you
> > should not drink
> when your blood glucose is low or when your stomach is
> > empty.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > For More Help and Support
> >
> > To find out exactly how much of what types of foods you
> > should eat, we
> suggest you work with a registered dietitian (RD) who has
> > experience working with people who have diabetes. This
> > person can help
> support your efforts to change your eating habits and
> control
> > your blood glucose level. To find a registered dietitian
> > near you:
> >
> > 1. Locate the names of American Diabetes Association
> > Recognized Diabetes
> Education Programs in your area or call 1-800-DIABETES
> > (1-800-342-2383).
> >
> > 2. Call The American Dietetic Association at
> > 1-800-366-1655. Ask for the
> names of dietitians in your area that specialize in
> > diabetes.
> >
> > 3. Call the American Association of Diabetes Educators, at
1-800-TEAM-UP4
> (1-800-832-6874). Ask for the names of several diabetes
> > educators in your zip code.
> >
> >
> > --
> > http://www.diabetes.org Shadow-Spirit 39 - Male - Type - 2
> > Dx'd January 27, 2003 330lbs now 264 A1C = 5.1 July 15
> >
>

Julie Bove

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Tony Lew" <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5c7896da.0308100952.4bacb4cd@posting.google.com...

<snip>

> Hmmm, so they're telling you to eat a diet heavy on
> starches, then admit that starches are equivalent to table
> sugar in affecting blood glucose. This is preposterous.
> I'm starting to think the ADA is a shill for the drug
> companies; they're recommending a diet that is guaranteed
> to make diabetics need more glucophage, glipizide, etc to
> control their blood glucose.

The key here is the serving size. Take cereal for example.
For most cereals, the serving size listed is far larger than
the serving size a diabetic is allowed, even on the ADA plan.
Ditto for fruit, rice, baked beans, and plenty of other
foods. 15 g of carb is a serving on the ADA diet. 6 x 15 = 90
g of carb per day, not counting the non-starchy vegetables. I
don't think that's an overly carby diet. Now granted, I did
go to the low end of the scale for what they call healthy
eating. But you can't just pick and choose various comments
to focus on. They also say something to the effect of the
diet varying from person to person depending on height,
weight, activity etc.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Wendy Bake

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Tony Lew <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote:
: "Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net> wrote
: in message news:<1060480362.295023@nntp.acecape.com>...
: > yes i know other research has said other ways are better
: > but after review it was not enough to change the minds of
: > the USFDA ( center for food safety and applied nutrition
: > or the American Diabetes Association.)
: >
: >
: > Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid
: >
: > http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid-
: > /foodpyramid.jsp
: >
: > The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food
: > groups. These sections vary in size. The largest group --
: > grains, beans, and starchy vegetables -- is on the
: > bottom. This means that you should eat more servings of
: > grains, beans, and starchy vegetables than of any of the
: > other foods

: <deletia>

: > Sugar and Diabetes
: >
: > Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars, like
: > table sugar, do not raise blood glucose any more quickly
: > than do other carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta.
: > This research holds true for people with type 1 and type 2
: > diabetes.

: Another way of phrasing this would be "Other
: carbohydrates like potatoes, rice and pasta raise blood
: glucose just a quickly as sugars like table sugar". Hmmm,
: so they're telling you to eat a diet heavy on starches,
: then admit that starches are equivalent to table sugar in
: affecting blood glucose. This is preposterous. I'm
: starting to think the ADA is a shill for the drug
: companies; they're recommending a diet that is guaranteed
: to make diabetics need more glucophage, glipizide, etc to
: control their blood glucose.

I remember an article many years ago in the ADA magazine
telling of how it had been found that foods like mashed
pototes raise blood sugars just as fast as table sugar. The
article then went on to point out that you should watch eating
much mashed potatoes and other fast absorbing foods and if you
use a little plain sugar, it could be OK, but to remember that
it is empty calories, giving yu no other important nutrients,
mineral, etc.

They well my set the carb levels too high in their eararness
to avoid high fat and protein, but they are not blanket
endorsing carbo pig-outs! They are trying to reach a very
non-compliant population that thinks that only sugar is what
is to be avoided.

Wendy

Jenny

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Steph,

If more people heard such "inflammatory" comments, maybe they
wouldn't attempt to control their diabetes with 300 gm carb
diets and thus avoid diabetic complications.

There is NO excuse for the lousy advice the ADA sends out.
They do not do significant education. They collect a lot of
money but fund very little useful research. Most of their
money is spent on so-called education (eat that low fat 300 gm
a day diet!)

The organization that does fund research is the Juvenile
Diabetes Association. The ADA is a drug-company funded
disgrace.

-- Jenny
168.5/138.5 30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001
and 11/10/02 - Now

http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate
your need for protein * How much people really lose each
month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for
Hunger Cravings
* Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low
Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? *
Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero * NEW! Do
Starch Blockers Work?

"Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com...
> Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful
> to anyone. You might want to remember that some diabetics do
> well on the ADA recommended diet. Others do not. I'm happy
> that you have found a way of eating that works
for
> you. If you do not support the ADA, and their efforts to
> help diabetes education and research, then so be it.
> However, I think it is tacky to accuse them of "proudly
> killing people with diabetes throughout the decades." Steph
>
> "Jenny" <jenny_the_bean@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:bh5f01$6a5$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> > The American Diabetes Association. Proudly killing people
> > with diabetes throughout the decades.
> >
> > One only hopes that the people in the organization who put
> > out this
> dietary
> > advice crap will take their own advice, die, and make room
> > for some
people
> > who actually know something about controlling diabetes
> > through diet to
> come
> > into the organization.
> >
> > But since they're funded by the companies that reap huge
> > profits off of
> the
> > elevated blood sugars their "diabetic diet" causes, I'm
> > not holding my breath.
> >
> > -- Jenny
> > 168.5/138.5 30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 -
> > 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now
> >
> > http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate
> > your need for protein * How much people really lose
each
> > month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure" for
> > Hunger
> Cravings
> > * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible
> > Low Carb Treats
*
> > Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing
> > Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch
> > Blockers Work?
> >
> >
> > "Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net> wrote
> > in message news:1060480362.295023@nntp.acecape.com...
> > >
> > > yes i know other research has said other ways are better
> > > but after review it was not enough to change the minds
> > > of the USFDA ( center for food safety and applied
> > > nutrition
or
> > the American Diabetes Association.)
> > >
> > >
> > > Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid
> > >
> > >
> http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid/f-
> oodpyramid.jsp
> > >
> > > The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food
> > > groups. These
> > sections vary in size. The largest group -- grains,
> > beans, and
> > > starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means that
> > > you should
eat
> > more servings of grains, beans, and starchy
> > vegetables than
> > > of any of the other foods. The smallest group -- fats,
> > > sweets, and
> > alcohol -- is at the top of the pyramid. This tells you
> > to eat
> > > very few servings from these food groups.
> > >
> > > Eat servings from all the food groups other than the
> > > fats, sweets, and
> > alcohol, every day. Eat the recommended number of servings
> > > on the pyramid within each food group. The exact number
> > > of servings
you
> > need depends on your diabetes goals, calorie and nutrition
> > > needs, your lifestyle, and the foods you like to eat.
> > > Divide the
number
> > of servings you should eat among the meals and snacks you
> > > eat each day. The Diabetes Food Pyramid makes it easier
> > > to remember
> what
> > to eat. For a healthy meal plan that is based on your
> > > individual needs, you should work with a registered
> > > dietitian (RD)
with
> > expertise in diabetes management. To find an RD with
> > > diabetes expertise, read the section below titled For
> > > More Help and
> > Support.
> > >
> > > The First Step
> > >
> > > For most people, a great first step to healthier eating
> > > habits is to
> make
> > a few simple changes. Perhaps you decide to eat more
> > > fruits and vegetables and to go lighter on the meats and
> > > sweets. If
you
> > make these changes and stick to them, pat yourself on the
> > > back. Before you make more changes, make sure you
> > > maintain the ones
you
> > have made. When you are ready, decide on the next change.
> > > Keep it easy to accomplish.
> > >
> > > As you continue to change your eating habits to manage
> > > your diabetes,
> the
> > diabetes food pyramid can help you and your whole family
> > > eat healthier. Here are some more healthy eating tips:
> > >
> > > a.. Eat a wide variety of foods every day. Try new
> > > foods. Eating a
> > wide variety of foods, even from the same food
> > group, helps
> > > you get all the nutrients to be in good health. For
> > > example, within
the
> > fruit group, bananas are a good source of potassium and
> > > oranges are a good source of vitamin C.
> > >
> > >
> > > b.. Be physically active every day. Try to accumulate
> > > 30 minutes
of
> > physical activity each day. Start slowly, by taking the
> > > stairs and walking more, or doing more yardwork.
> > >
> > >
> > > c.. Eat high-fiber foods such as fruits, vegetables,
> > > whole grains
and
> > beans. These are the foods you should primarily eat. They
> > > provide lots of vitamins, minerals, and fiber, yet they
> > > provide the
> least
> > concentrated sources of calories.
> > >
> > >
> > > d.. Use less added fat. It is well known that eating
> > > many foods
that
> > are high in fat, particularly ones with too much saturated
> > > fat and dietary cholesterol, can contribute to the
> > > development of
> clogged
> > and narrowed arteries. This can lead to heart disease and
> > > people with diabetes are at an even greater risk for
> > > developing heart
> > disease.
> > >
> > >
> > > e.. Use less added sugar. Sugary foods, like jelly
> > > beans and
regular
> > soft drinks, and sweets, like ice cream and cookies, are
> > > not healthy for anyone. They provide a bunch of calories
> > > with little
or
> > no nutrients. Yet sugary foods and sweets are enjoyable to
> > > eat. Strike a balance -- practice moderation.
> > >
> > >
> > > f.. Use less added salt and sodium. Americans eat more
> > > salt and
> sodium
> > than they need. Most of the sodium we eat comes from
> > > processed foods like cold cuts, prepared foods, canned
> > > soups, and
> pickles.
> > To keep your salt and sodium intake moderate, shake the
> > > salt shaker lightly and use more fresh and unprocessed
> > > foods.
> > >
> > >
> > > g.. If you choose to drink alcohol, limit the amount
> > > and drink it
with
> > food. Check with your health care professional about an
> > > amount that's safe for you. Next Step ... Learn More
> > >
> > > Starches and Diabetes
> > >
> > > Eat more starches! It is healthiest for everyone to eat
> > > more whole
> > grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas, corn,
> > > potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you
> > > because they
have
> > very little fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol.
> > >
> > >
> > > Vegetables and Diabetes
> > >
> > > When it comes to vegetables, people with diabetes should
> > > eat at least
> > three servings a day. Vegetables are healthy, chock
> > full of
> > > vitamins and minerals, and some give you much needed
> > > fiber. The best
> > part: vegetables are naturally low in calories.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Fruit and Diabetes Questions about fruit keep coming up.
> > > Will fruit juice increase blood
> > glucose levels more quickly than a piece of fruit? Should
> > > you avoid fruit in the morning because your blood
> > > glucose might be
> higher
> > than at other times in the day? Is it better to eat fruit
> > > with meals rather than snacks?
> > >
> > > Milk and Diabetes People with diabetes are at the same
> > > risk for osteoporosis as the
> general
> > public. Fat-free (skim) and low-fat (1%) milk and yogurt
> > > will provide the calcium you need without saturated
> > > fat and
cholesterol.
> > >
> > >
> > > Protein (Meat, Poultry, Seafood, Cheese, Eggs, Etc.) and
> > > Diabetes
> > >
> > > People with diabetes have no less or more need for
> > > protein than the
> > general public. The American Diabetes Association
> > nutrition
> > > guidelines suggest eating between 10 and 20% of your
> > > calories as
> protein.
> > The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for protein is 0.8
> > > grams per kilogram of body weight.
> > >
> > > Fat and Diabetes
> > >
> > > Fat ought to make up about 30% of your calories. The
> > > total amount of
fat
> > you eat should be based on the foods you like and your
> > > goals for eating healthy and blood lipid (blood fats)
> > > and glucose
> control.
> > You need an individualized meal plan.
> > >
> > > Sugar and Diabetes
> > >
> > > Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars, like
> > > table sugar,
do
> > not raise blood glucose any more quickly than do other
> > > carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta. This
> > > research holds true
> for
> > people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes.
> > >
> > > Alcohol and Diabetes
> > >
> > > Beyond all the health and safety concerns about alcohol,
> > > if you have
> > diabetes and are on diabetes medications that lower blood
> > > glucose, you need to practice caution. The action of
> > > insulin and some
> > diabetes pills, sulfonylureas and meglitinides
> > (Prandin), is
> > > to lower blood glucose by making more insulin. So, you
> > > should not
drink
> > when your blood glucose is low or when your stomach is
> > > empty.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > For More Help and Support
> > >
> > > To find out exactly how much of what types of foods you
> > > should eat, we
> > suggest you work with a registered dietitian (RD) who has
> > > experience working with people who have diabetes. This
> > > person can help
> > support your efforts to change your eating habits and
> > control
> > > your blood glucose level. To find a registered dietitian
> > > near you:
> > >
> > > 1. Locate the names of American Diabetes Association
> > > Recognized
Diabetes
> > Education Programs in your area or call 1-800-DIABETES
> > > (1-800-342-2383).
> > >
> > > 2. Call The American Dietetic Association at
> > > 1-800-366-1655. Ask for
the
> > names of dietitians in your area that specialize in
> > > diabetes.
> > >
> > > 3. Call the American Association of Diabetes Educators,
> > > at
> 1-800-TEAM-UP4
> > (1-800-832-6874). Ask for the names of several diabetes
> > > educators in your zip code.
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > http://www.diabetes.org Shadow-Spirit 39 - Male - Type -
> > > 2 Dx'd January 27, 2003 330lbs now 264 A1C = 5.1 July 15
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Proconsul

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Priscilla

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

In article <vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com>,
"Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

> Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful
> to anyone. You might want to remember that some diabetics do
> well on the ADA recommended diet.

I'll bet they have to take meds in order to accomplish
that, though.

Priscilla

Cheri

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Yes, but the part that troubles me so much is why is the
population thinking that only sugar is what is to be avoided,
if not from bad medical advice? My first doctor had the nurse
call me to tell me to lay off concentrated sweets, that's it.
Lucky for me I found these groups soon after. I think the ADA
has a lot of good points, but I don't think the dietary advice
is very good at all. JMO

--
Cheri

Wendy Baker wrote in message ...

>
>They well my set the carb levels too high in their
>eararness to avoid
high
>fat and protein, but they are not blanket endorsing carbo
>pig-outs!
They
>are trying to reach a very non-compliant population that
>thinks that
only
>sugar is what is to be avoided.
>
> Wendy

Blitz

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Well, as a newbie, I find that fascinating. I may have blindly
followed the ADA if not for your "inflammatory comments".
Thank you for causing me to think twice and be a little more
open minded about seeking other resources. Actually, my first
step was to go to their website. I didn't find it to be very
helpful, but rather self promoting and wanting in my wallet.
So thank you.

"Jenny" <jenny_the_bean@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:bh5rbq$8nj$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> Steph,
>
> If more people heard such "inflammatory" comments, maybe
> they wouldn't attempt to control their diabetes with 300 gm
> carb diets and thus avoid diabetic complications.
>
> There is NO excuse for the lousy advice the ADA sends out.
> They do not do significant education. They collect a lot of
> money but fund very little useful research. Most of their
> money is spent on so-called education (eat that low fat 300
> gm a day diet!)
>
> The organization that does fund research is the Juvenile
> Diabetes Association. The ADA is a drug-company funded
> disgrace.
>
> -- Jenny
> 168.5/138.5 30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 - 8/2001
> and 11/10/02 - Now
>
> http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate
> your need for protein * How much people really lose each
> month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure"
> for Hunger
Cravings
> * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible Low
> Carb Treats * Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? *
> Curing Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero * NEW! Do
> Starch Blockers Work?
>
>
> "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
> news:vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com...
> > Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful
> > to anyone. You
might
> > want to remember that some diabetics do well on the ADA
> > recommended
diet.
> > Others do not. I'm happy that you have found a way of
> > eating that works
> for
> > you. If you do not support the ADA, and their efforts
> > to help diabetes education and research, then so be
> > it. However, I think it is tacky to accuse them of
> > "proudly killing people with diabetes throughout the
> > decades." Steph
> >
> > "Jenny" <jenny_the_bean@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:bh5f01$6a5$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
> > > The American Diabetes Association. Proudly killing
> > > people with
diabetes
> > > throughout the decades.
> > >
> > > One only hopes that the people in the organization who
> > > put out this
> > dietary
> > > advice crap will take their own advice, die, and make
> > > room for some
> people
> > > who actually know something about controlling diabetes
> > > through diet to
> > come
> > > into the organization.
> > >
> > > But since they're funded by the companies that reap huge
> > > profits off
of
> > the
> > > elevated blood sugars their "diabetic diet" causes, I'm
> > > not holding my breath.
> > >
> > > -- Jenny
> > > 168.5/138.5 30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 -
> > > 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now
> > >
> > > http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to calculate
> > > your need for protein * How much people really lose
> each
> > > month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure"
> > > for Hunger
> > Cravings
> > > * Characteristics of Successful Dieters * Indispensible
> > > Low Carb
Treats
> *
> > > Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing
> > > Ketobreath * Exercise Starting from Zero * NEW! Do
> > > Starch Blockers Work?
> > >
> > >
> > > "Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net>
> > > wrote in message
> > > news:1060480362.295023@nntp.acecape.com...
> > > >
> > > > yes i know other research has said other ways are
> > > > better but after review it was not enough to change
> > > > the minds of the USFDA ( center for food safety and
> > > > applied
nutrition
> or
> > > the American Diabetes Association.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid
> > > >
> > > >
> >
http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid/foo-
dpyramid.jsp
> > > >
> > > > The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food
> > > > groups. These
> > > sections vary in size. The largest group -- grains,
> > > beans, and
> > > > starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means
> > > > that you should
> eat
> > > more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables
> > > than
> > > > of any of the other foods. The smallest group -- fats,
> > > > sweets, and
> > > alcohol -- is at the top of the pyramid. This tells you
> > > to eat
> > > > very few servings from these food groups.
> > > >
> > > > Eat servings from all the food groups other than the
> > > > fats, sweets,
and
> > > alcohol, every day. Eat the recommended number of
> > > servings
> > > > on the pyramid within each food group. The exact
> > > > number of servings
> you
> > > need depends on your diabetes goals, calorie and
> > > nutrition
> > > > needs, your lifestyle, and the foods you like to eat.
> > > > Divide the
> number
> > > of servings you should eat among the meals and
> > > snacks you
> > > > eat each day. The Diabetes Food Pyramid makes it
> > > > easier to remember
> > what
> > > to eat. For a healthy meal plan that is based on your
> > > > individual needs, you should work with a registered
> > > > dietitian (RD)
> with
> > > expertise in diabetes management. To find an RD with
> > > > diabetes expertise, read the section below titled For
> > > > More Help and
> > > Support.
> > > >
> > > > The First Step
> > > >
> > > > For most people, a great first step to healthier
> > > > eating habits is to
> > make
> > > a few simple changes. Perhaps you decide to eat more
> > > > fruits and vegetables and to go lighter on the meats
> > > > and sweets. If
> you
> > > make these changes and stick to them, pat yourself
> > > on the
> > > > back. Before you make more changes, make sure you
> > > > maintain the ones
> you
> > > have made. When you are ready, decide on the next
> > > change.
> > > > Keep it easy to accomplish.
> > > >
> > > > As you continue to change your eating habits to manage
> > > > your
diabetes,
> > the
> > > diabetes food pyramid can help you and your whole family
> > > > eat healthier. Here are some more healthy eating tips:
> > > >
> > > > a.. Eat a wide variety of foods every day. Try new
> > > > foods. Eating
a
> > > wide variety of foods, even from the same food group,
> > > helps
> > > > you get all the nutrients to be in good health. For
> > > > example, within
> the
> > > fruit group, bananas are a good source of potassium and
> > > > oranges are a good source of vitamin C.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > b.. Be physically active every day. Try to
> > > > accumulate 30 minutes
> of
> > > physical activity each day. Start slowly, by taking the
> > > > stairs and walking more, or doing more yardwork.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > c.. Eat high-fiber foods such as fruits, vegetables,
> > > > whole grains
> and
> > > beans. These are the foods you should primarily eat.
> > > They
> > > > provide lots of vitamins, minerals, and fiber, yet
> > > > they provide the
> > least
> > > concentrated sources of calories.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > d.. Use less added fat. It is well known that eating
> > > > many foods
> that
> > > are high in fat, particularly ones with too much
> > > saturated
> > > > fat and dietary cholesterol, can contribute to the
> > > > development of
> > clogged
> > > and narrowed arteries. This can lead to heart
> > > disease and
> > > > people with diabetes are at an even greater risk for
> > > > developing
heart
> > > disease.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > e.. Use less added sugar. Sugary foods, like jelly
> > > > beans and
> regular
> > > soft drinks, and sweets, like ice cream and cookies, are
> > > > not healthy for anyone. They provide a bunch of
> > > > calories with
little
> or
> > > no nutrients. Yet sugary foods and sweets are
> > > enjoyable to
> > > > eat. Strike a balance -- practice moderation.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > f.. Use less added salt and sodium. Americans eat
> > > > more salt and
> > sodium
> > > than they need. Most of the sodium we eat comes from
> > > > processed foods like cold cuts, prepared foods, canned
> > > > soups, and
> > pickles.
> > > To keep your salt and sodium intake moderate, shake the
> > > > salt shaker lightly and use more fresh and unprocessed
> > > > foods.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > g.. If you choose to drink alcohol, limit the amount
> > > > and drink it
> with
> > > food. Check with your health care professional about an
> > > > amount that's safe for you. Next Step ... Learn More
> > > >
> > > > Starches and Diabetes
> > > >
> > > > Eat more starches! It is healthiest for everyone to
> > > > eat more whole
> > > grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas,
> > > corn,
> > > > potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you
> > > > because they
> have
> > > very little fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Vegetables and Diabetes
> > > >
> > > > When it comes to vegetables, people with diabetes
> > > > should eat at
least
> > > three servings a day. Vegetables are healthy, chock
> > > full of
> > > > vitamins and minerals, and some give you much needed
> > > > fiber. The
best
> > > part: vegetables are naturally low in calories.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Fruit and Diabetes Questions about fruit keep coming
> > > > up. Will fruit juice increase
blood
> > > glucose levels more quickly than a piece of fruit?
> > > Should
> > > > you avoid fruit in the morning because your blood
> > > > glucose might be
> > higher
> > > than at other times in the day? Is it better to eat
> > > fruit
> > > > with meals rather than snacks?
> > > >
> > > > Milk and Diabetes People with diabetes are at the same
> > > > risk for osteoporosis as the
> > general
> > > public. Fat-free (skim) and low-fat (1%) milk and yogurt
> > > > will provide the calcium you need without saturated
> > > > fat and
> cholesterol.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Protein (Meat, Poultry, Seafood, Cheese, Eggs, Etc.)
> > > > and Diabetes
> > > >
> > > > People with diabetes have no less or more need for
> > > > protein than the
> > > general public. The American Diabetes Association
> > > nutrition
> > > > guidelines suggest eating between 10 and 20% of your
> > > > calories as
> > protein.
> > > The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for protein is 0.8
> > > > grams per kilogram of body weight.
> > > >
> > > > Fat and Diabetes
> > > >
> > > > Fat ought to make up about 30% of your calories. The
> > > > total amount of
> fat
> > > you eat should be based on the foods you like and your
> > > > goals for eating healthy and blood lipid (blood fats)
> > > > and glucose
> > control.
> > > You need an individualized meal plan.
> > > >
> > > > Sugar and Diabetes
> > > >
> > > > Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars,
> > > > like table sugar,
> do
> > > not raise blood glucose any more quickly than do other
> > > > carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta. This
> > > > research holds
true
> > for
> > > people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes.
> > > >
> > > > Alcohol and Diabetes
> > > >
> > > > Beyond all the health and safety concerns about
> > > > alcohol, if you have
> > > diabetes and are on diabetes medications that lower
> > > blood
> > > > glucose, you need to practice caution. The action of
> > > > insulin and
some
> > > diabetes pills, sulfonylureas and meglitinides
> > > (Prandin), is
> > > > to lower blood glucose by making more insulin. So, you
> > > > should not
> drink
> > > when your blood glucose is low or when your stomach is
> > > > empty.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > For More Help and Support
> > > >
> > > > To find out exactly how much of what types of foods
> > > > you should eat,
we
> > > suggest you work with a registered dietitian (RD)
> > > who has
> > > > experience working with people who have diabetes. This
> > > > person can
help
> > > support your efforts to change your eating habits and
> > > control
> > > > your blood glucose level. To find a registered
> > > > dietitian near you:
> > > >
> > > > 1. Locate the names of American Diabetes Association
> > > > Recognized
> Diabetes
> > > Education Programs in your area or call 1-800-DIABETES
> > > > (1-800-342-2383).
> > > >
> > > > 2. Call The American Dietetic Association at
> > > > 1-800-366-1655. Ask for
> the
> > > names of dietitians in your area that specialize in
> > > > diabetes.
> > > >
> > > > 3. Call the American Association of Diabetes
> > > > Educators, at
> > 1-800-TEAM-UP4
> > > (1-800-832-6874). Ask for the names of several diabetes
> > > > educators in your zip code.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > http://www.diabetes.org Shadow-Spirit 39 - Male - Type
> > > > - 2 Dx'd January 27, 2003 330lbs now 264 A1C = 5.1
> > > > July 15
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>

Julie Bove

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:HOvZa.8077$qf.4320@lakeread06...
> It's not "tacky" to post the absolute truth - the ADA
> recommended diet borders on being criminal.....

Oh, now talk about extreme!
>
> I doubt anyone has had "success" with their diet. In my
> case, they limited meat to one ounce per day. They loaded up
> carbs to more than 100 grams per meal. I ate ONE meal as
> they suggested, and even with a portion that was only about
> four ounces total, my BS went up 150 points. Their response?
Have
> your doctor increase your meds.....!!!!!

Absoulte nonsense! Even I don't eat just one ounce of meat per
day. Now take that with a grain of salt because I'm not really
much of a meat eater. Perhaps I should substitute the word
protein for meat. I eat 6 servings (6 ounces of meat or the
equivalent) per day. If you were cut back to only 1 ounce,
then I should think you had some other medical problem to
warrant it, such as kidney problems. And when you say "their
response", are you referring to the ADA? Did you actually call
the ADA and this is what they said? Or are you referring to a
dietician?
>
> I fired the diabetic nurses AND the near-criminal dietician
> that day. On a sensible low carb regimen, by BS averages in
> the 80s and 90s.

As I have said before, there is no one diet that works for
everyone. Many people do well on the ADA diet.
>
> There is no "rocket science" involved in determining just
> how dangerous
the
> ADA and it's phony propaganda are.....

Nothing phony about it. Keep in mind that there are many
different variables to diabetes. A person who is type 1 can
likely get away with eating more carbs than we type 2's. But
there again, YMMV.Now I do have a bone to pick (minus the
meat) in that most of the information you see regarding diet
and other things is aimed at people with type 1. Several of my
Drs. have told me that most of the research that has been done
over the years has been for people with type 1.

Ah, but why am I even bothering to reply to you? You have
kill-filed me!

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Julie Bove

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Priscilla Ballou" <phb@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:phb-58408B.14595510082003@news.verizon.net...
> In article <vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful
> > to anyone. You
might
> > want to remember that some diabetics do well on the ADA
> > recommended
diet.
>
> I'll bet they have to take meds in order to accomplish
> that, though.

I am on meds now, but this wasn't always the case. I did fine
on the Exchange Plan and diet and exercise for quite awhile
until my thyroid decided to throw me for another loop. Now
it's meds, meds and more meds. And it would still be meds even
if I did the low carb.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Kurt

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Ah, Julie Bove, always the voice of reason in this tempest
tossed sea of ADA bashing. It amazes me Proconsul labels
the ADA "criminal"...maybe I'll forward the note over to
their lawyers.

Look folks, the ADA is an organization devoted to finding a
cure for what ails us all. On their board are some of the
finest doctors, endos, and diabetologists in the country. They
try to reach a very broad target with their advice and
obviously those of us here are much more diligent and
knowledgeable about searching out the best specific way to
treat ourselves. To those who are new to diabetes and seek out
the ADA for their first big step towards understanding, the
site provides some basic info. It is up to our Doctors and
ourselves to take it from there.

ASD is great place to come for support and read how others are
dealing with their diabetes. However, it shouldn't be a place
where people slander the ADA and the medical profession.

Kurt

From: "Julie Bove" jnospambove@bestweb.net

"Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:HOvZa.8077$qf.4320@lakeread06...
> It's not "tacky" to post the absolute truth - the ADA
> recommended diet borders on being criminal.....

Oh, now talk about extreme!
>
> I doubt anyone has had "success" with their diet. In my
> case, they limited meat to one ounce per day. They loaded up
> carbs to more than 100 grams per meal. I ate ONE meal as
> they suggested, and even with a portion that was only about
> four ounces total, my BS went up 150 points. Their response?
Have
> your doctor increase your meds.....!!!!!

Absoulte nonsense! Even I don't eat just one ounce of meat per
day. Now take that with a grain of salt because I'm not really
much of a meat eater. Perhaps I should substitute the word
protein for meat. I eat 6 servings (6 ounces of meat or the
equivalent) per day. If you were cut back to only 1 ounce,
then I should think you had some other medical problem to
warrant it, such as kidney problems. And when you say "their
response", are you referring to the ADA? Did you actually call
the ADA and this is what they said? Or are you referring to a
dietician?
>
> I fired the diabetic nurses AND the near-criminal dietician
> that day. On a sensible low carb regimen, by BS averages in
> the 80s and 90s.

As I have said before, there is no one diet that works for
everyone. Many people do well on the ADA diet.
>
> There is no "rocket science" involved in determining just
> how dangerous
the
> ADA and it's phony propaganda are.....

Nothing phony about it. Keep in mind that there are many
different variables to diabetes. A person who is type 1 can
likely get away with eating more carbs than we type 2's. But
there again, YMMV.Now I do have a bone to pick (minus the
meat) in that most of the information you see regarding diet
and other things is aimed at people with type 1. Several of my
Drs. have told me that most of the research that has been done
over the years has been for people with type 1.

Ah, but why am I even bothering to reply to you? You have
kill-filed me!

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Wendy Bake

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Priscilla Ballou <phb@world.std.com> wrote:
: In article <vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com>,
: "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

: > Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful
: > to anyone. You might want to remember that some diabetics
: > do well on the ADA recommended diet.

: I'll bet they have to take meds in order to accomplish
: that, though.

: Priscilla

I am no boster of the ADA diet, as it didn't work for me at
150-160 carb grams a day. I am having success with 60-100grams
a day and meds. I see no higher virtue in doing the control
without meds if they are necessary. Many of us on all kinds of
carb levels require meds to keep our bgs in order. It doesn't
make us less "better" than those whose diabetes is less
advanced and, therefore have sufficient effective beta cells
to not require meds with their diet and exercise.

Wendy

Diana

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Cheri The first words my doctor said to me upon my diagnosis
is NO SWEETS and yet I can eat sweets and not spike but give
me a tater and ohh my goodness I spike over 100 points. I
learned what I know from right here in this group. I love it
even if I don't post much anymore.

Di "Cheri" <gservice@inreach.com-nogarbage> wrote in message
news:ChzZa.445$sz7.211@news.inreach.com...
> Yes, but the part that troubles me so much is why is the
> population thinking that only sugar is what is to be
> avoided, if not from bad medical advice? My first doctor had
> the nurse call me to tell me to
lay
> off concentrated sweets, that's it. Lucky for me I
> found these
groups
> soon after. I think the ADA has a lot of good points,
> but I don't
think
> the dietary advice is very good at all. JMO
>
> --
> Cheri
>
> Wendy Baker wrote in message ...
>
> >
> >They well my set the carb levels too high in their
> >eararness to
avoid
> high
> >fat and protein, but they are not blanket endorsing carbo
> >pig-outs!
> They
> >are trying to reach a very non-compliant population
> >that thinks
that
> only
> >sugar is what is to be avoided.
> >
> > Wendy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

agreed Cheri.

my first doc told me there was no need to see a dietician,
they'd only tell me what I can't eat. not what I should. lol
not that he ever told me either.

--
RK T1 - 5/00

"Cheri" <gservice@inreach.com-nogarbage> wrote in message
news:ChzZa.445$sz7.211@news.inreach.com...
: Yes, but the part that troubles me so much is why is the
: population thinking that only sugar is what is to be
: avoided, if not from bad medical advice? My first doctor had
: the nurse call me to tell me to lay off concentrated sweets,
: that's it. Lucky for me I found these groups soon after. I
: think the ADA has a lot of good points, but I don't think
: the dietary advice is very good at all. JMO
:
: --
: Cheri
:
: Wendy Baker wrote in message ...
:
: >
: >They well my set the carb levels too high in their
: >eararness to avoid
: high
: >fat and protein, but they are not blanket endorsing carbo
: >pig-outs!
: They
: >are trying to reach a very non-compliant population that
: >thinks that
: only
: >sugar is what is to be avoided.
: >
: > Wendy
:
:

Arnie Macy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Shadow-Spirit" (aka Sushi Boy CheeseBurger Copulator) wrote
...

LOL - Arnie if you think there is no difference between
bananas, white bread and sugar. lol i suggest you see a
dietitian - you have a lot to learn - do you just copy and
paste the information you post? because everytime i see you
talk i think to my self - how can he understand the other
posts if he cant understand this. Arnie you are free to post
here but please see a dietitian - your diet must be a mess.
bye the way did you read the warnings that the ADA says about
high protein diets? il be posting a link to that soon. lol
also just wondering - if i keep changing names are you always
going to keep adding the ADA opps i mean AKA thing?
_____________________________________________________________-
_____________

There *are* differences between bananas, white bread, and
sugar. (a ripe banana has a yellow skin, for example :-)
However, once they are digested, they will have the exact same
effect on your BG because they all have about the same
Glycemic index. What do you think happens to the banana, piece
of white bread, or sugar once it enters your system --
nothing? As to my diet, I've maintained my weight loss (from
220 to 160) for nearly five years and have no indication of
reduced kidney function whatever. I've read the *dated*
warnings from the ADA but prefer to cite current research that
thoroughly disproves that theory.

Arnie -

Tony Lew

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net> wrote in
message news:<1060489806.392267@nntp.acecape.com>...
> "Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
> news:bh4gqs$uch6r$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...
> : "Julie Bove" wrote ...
> :
> : Yeah, but check to see what a serving size is. 1/2 of a
> : small banana is considered a serving.
> : _________________________________________________________-
> : ____________
> :
> : Okay, Julie. That would be 14 gms carb and the Glycemic
> : index would stay the same. No different than eating a
> : slice of white bread or about 11 gms of pure sugar.
> :
> : Arnie -
> :
>
> LOL - Arnie if you think there is no difference between
> bananas, white bread and sugar. lol i suggest you see a
> dietitian - you have a lot to learn - do you just copy and
> paste the information you post?

Well, according the the information you posted:

"Sugar and Diabetes

Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars, like table
sugar, do not raise blood glucose any more quickly than do
other carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta. This
research holds true for people with type 1 and type 2
diabetes."

So, as far as their effect on blood glucose, there isn't.

because everytime i see you talk i think to my self - how can
> he understand the other posts if he cant understand this.
> Arnie you are free to post here but please see a dietitian -
> your diet must be a mess. bye the way did you read the
> warnings that the ADA says about high protein diets? il be
> posting a link to that soon. lol also just wondering - if i
> keep changing names are you always going to keep adding the
> ADA opps i mean AKA thing? Shadow

Arnie Macy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"kurt" wrote ...

Look folks, the ADA is an organization devoted to finding a
cure for what ails us all. On their board are some of the
finest doctors, endos, and diabetologists in the country.
They try to reach a very broad target with their advice and
obviously those of us here are much more diligent and
knowledgeable about searching out the best specific way to
treat ourselves. To those who are new to diabetes and seek
out the ADA for their first big step towards understanding,
the site provides some basic info. It is up to our Doctors
and ourselves to take it from there. ASD is great place to
come for support and read how others are dealing with their
diabetes. However, it shouldn't be a place where people
slander the ADA and the medical profession.
_____________________________________________________________-
____________

As I have said in another post, I have spent hours pouring
over the ADA web site. IMHO, it is in need of an update to
reflect the current science and research concerning diabetes
and treatment options. Until they do that, they are doing a
disservice to this community. I don't believe it is slander to
offer an opinion concerning their [ADA] slow movement to
publish current information for us. BTW, I couldn't agree more
with your assessment of ASD as a support mechanism.

Arnie -

Proconsul

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c6cde11.0308101259.1deeb76f@posting.google.com...
| Ah, Julie Bove, always the voice of reason in this tempest
| tossed sea of ADA bashing. It amazes me Proconsul labels the
| ADA "criminal"...maybe I'll forward the note over to their
| lawyers.

I said "borders" on being criminal - and that's certianly
accurate....

Ms. Bove certainly congributed nothing of value with her
defense of the indefensible - neither have you.....:)

| Look folks, the ADA is an organization devoted to finding a
| cure for what ails us all. On their board are some of the
| finest doctors, endos, and diabetologists in the country.
| They try to reach a very broad target with their advice and
| obviously those of us here are much more diligent and
| knowledgeable about searching out the best specific way to
| treat ourselves. To those who are new to diabetes and seek
| out the ADA for their first big step towards understanding,
| the site provides some basic info. It is up to our Doctors
| and ourselves to take it from there.

You need to learn a lot more about the ADA - they aren't
interested in finding a cure for "us", but rather fostering a
politicized agenda. Follow their advice and you'll find
yourself at best a blind multiple amputee and at worst you'll
be dead....

| ASD is great place to come for support and read how others
| are dealing with their diabetes. However, it shouldn't be a
| place where people slander the ADA and the medical
| profession.

The truth isn't "slander". Can you point out ONE word posted
that wasn't true - based on your obviously superior knowledge?

PC

| From: "Julie Bove" jnospambove@bestweb.net
|
| "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
| news:HOvZa.8077$qf.4320@lakeread06...
| > It's not "tacky" to post the absolute truth - the ADA
| > recommended diet borders on being criminal.....
|
| Oh, now talk about extreme!
| >
| > I doubt anyone has had "success" with their diet. In my
| > case, they
limited
| > meat to one ounce per day. They loaded up carbs to more
| > than 100 grams
per
| > meal. I ate ONE meal as they suggested, and even with a
| > portion that was only about four ounces total, my BS went
| > up 150 points. Their response?
| Have
| > your doctor increase your meds.....!!!!!
|
| Absoulte nonsense! Even I don't eat just one ounce of meat
| per day. Now take that with a grain of salt because I'm not
| really much of a meat eater. Perhaps I should substitute the
| word protein for meat. I eat 6 servings (6 ounces of meat or
| the equivalent) per day. If you were cut back to only 1
| ounce, then I should think you had some other medical
| problem to warrant it, such as kidney problems. And when you
| say "their response", are you referring to the ADA? Did you
| actually call the ADA and this is what they said? Or are you
| referring to a dietician?
| >
| > I fired the diabetic nurses AND the near-criminal
| > dietician that day. On
a
| > sensible low carb regimen, by BS averages in the 80s
| > and 90s.
|
| As I have said before, there is no one diet that works for
| everyone. Many people do well on the ADA diet.
| >
| > There is no "rocket science" involved in determining just
| > how dangerous
| the
| > ADA and it's phony propaganda are.....
|
| Nothing phony about it. Keep in mind that there are many
| different variables to diabetes. A person who is type 1 can
| likely get away with eating more carbs than we type 2's. But
| there again, YMMV.Now I do have a bone to pick (minus the
| meat) in that most of the information you see regarding diet
| and other things is aimed at people with type 1. Several of
| my Drs. have told me that most of the research that has been
| done over the years has been for people with type 1.
|
| Ah, but why am I even bothering to reply to you? You have
| kill-filed me!
|
| --
| Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Diana

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

RK My doctor upon diagnosis handed me a 1200 calorie diet and
said see you in a week and that was it. The only dietitian I
saw was two years ago when I was in the hospital and I
requested one and that is how I learned about carbs is she
worked with me and showed me how to count them.

Diana "RK" <xxx@xxx.net> wrote in message
news:ytzZa.53089$hc.39910@fe3.columbus.rr.com...
>
> agreed Cheri.
>
> my first doc told me there was no need to see a dietician,
> they'd only tell me what I can't eat. not what I should. lol
> not that he
ever
> told me either.
>
> --
> RK T1 - 5/00
>
>
> "Cheri" <gservice@inreach.com-nogarbage> wrote in message
> news:ChzZa.445$sz7.211@news.inreach.com...
> : Yes, but the part that troubles me so much is why is the
population
> : thinking that only sugar is what is to be avoided, if not
> : from bad medical advice? My first doctor had the nurse
> : call me to tell me
to lay
> : off concentrated sweets, that's it. Lucky for me I
> : found these
groups
> : soon after. I think the ADA has a lot of good points, but
> : I don't
think
> : the dietary advice is very good at all. JMO
> :
> : --
> : Cheri
> :
> : Wendy Baker wrote in message ...
> :
> : >
> : >They well my set the carb levels too high in their
> : >eararness to
avoid
> : high
> : >fat and protein, but they are not blanket endorsing carbo
pig-outs!
> : They
> : >are trying to reach a very non-compliant population that
> : >thinks
that
> : only
> : >sugar is what is to be avoided.
> : >
> : > Wendy
> :
> :

Sleepyman

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

On Sat, 9 Aug 2003 22:30:07 -0600, "Shadow-Spirit"
<mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net> wrote:

>LOL - Arnie if you think there is no difference between
>bananas, white bread and sugar. lol i suggest you see a
>dietitian - you have a lot to learn - do you just copy and
>paste the information you post? because everytime i see you
>talk i think to my self - how can he understand the other
>posts if he cant understand this. Arnie you are free to post
>here but please see a dietitian - your diet must be a mess.
>bye the way did you read the warnings that the ADA says about
>high protein diets? il be posting a link to that soon. lol
>also just wondering - if i keep changing names are you always
>going to keep adding the ADA opps i mean AKA thing? Shadow
>
Every time you post a "thought" or a link, you serve up more
proof of your ignorance.

SM

---------------------------------------
Q. How do republicans have sex?

R. They don't. They only screw the poor.
----------------------------------------

Arnie Macy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Tony Lew" responded to Shadow Spirit (aka Sushi Boy
CheeseBurger Copulator) and wrote ...

Sushi Boy : "LOL - Arnie if you think there is no difference
between bananas, white bread and sugar. lol i suggest you see
a dietitian - you have a lot to learn - do you just copy and
paste the information you post?"

"Well, according the information you posted: "Sugar and
Diabetes Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars,
like table sugar, do not raise blood glucose any more quickly
than do other carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta.
This research holds true for people with type 1 and type 2
diabetes."

So, as far as their effect on blood glucose, there isn't.
_____________________________________________________________-
_______________

Thanks for the reply, Tony. Talking to Sushi Boy is like
talking to a brick wall. My only hope is that he sees
the light at some point and looks to other sources than
just the ADA.

Arnie -

Richard Bo

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

Why should he? By his accounts the ADA diet is working for him
with minimal meds, so I don't see any reason why he'd want to
consider anything else.

--
Will you sponsor me in the Tour de Cure? http://main.diabetes-
.org/site/TR?pg=personal&fr_id=1058&px=1626087

"Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
news:bh66vm$udsh4$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...

>
> Thanks for the reply, Tony. Talking to Sushi Boy is like
> talking to a
brick
> wall. My only hope is that he sees the light at some point
> and looks to other sources than just the ADA.

Arnie Macy

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Richard Bollar" wrote ...

Why should he? By his accounts the ADA diet is working for
him with minimal meds, so I don't see any reason why he'd
want to consider anything else.
_____________________________________________________________-
____________

Richard,

I am not saying that he shouldn't continue with his successful
diet. If it works for him, great. I am saying that he tends to
use the ADA as his *only* source of information when
commenting on other diets. There is a wealth of current
knowledge out there beyond the ADA web site. He should avail
himself of that research data. It will broaden his
understanding of this disease. I have spent quite a few hours
pouring over the ADA web site. IMHO, it is in need of a good
update to reflect current science and research.

Arnie -

Sun, Aug-10-03, 18:18

"Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
news:bh6dv4$up1dq$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...
: "Richard Bollar" wrote ...
:
: Why should he? By his accounts the ADA diet is working for
: him with minimal meds, so I don't see any reason why he'd
: want to consider anything else.
: ___________________________________________________________-
: ______________
:
: Richard,
:
: I am not saying that he shouldn't continue with his
: successful diet. If
it
: works for him, great. I am saying that he tends to use the
: ADA as his *only* source of information when commenting on
: other diets. There is a wealth of current knowledge out
: there beyond the ADA web site. He should avail himself of
: that research data. It will broaden his understanding of
: this disease. I have spent quite a few hours pouring over
: the ADA web
site.
: IMHO,

"it is in need of a good update to reflect current science and
: research."

thats a definate given!

RK

:
: Arnie -
:
:
:
:

Julie Bove

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

"Cheri" <gservice@inreach.com-nogarbage> wrote in message
news:ChzZa.445$sz7.211@news.inreach.com...
> Yes, but the part that troubles me so much is why is the
> population thinking that only sugar is what is to be
> avoided, if not from bad medical advice? My first doctor had
> the nurse call me to tell me to lay off concentrated sweets,
> that's it. Lucky for me I found these groups soon after. I
> think the ADA has a lot of good points, but I don't think
> the dietary advice is very good at all. JMO

I think for so many years it was called "sugar diabetes". That
just seems to stick in everyone's mind. I just wish someone
would set the general public straight. Of course that will
probably never happen. Prior to diabetes, I myself knew little
about it and didn't really care because I figured it would
never happen to me.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Sleepyman

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 19:01:02 GMT, Priscilla Ballou
<phb@world.std.com> wrote:

> In article <vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful
>> to anyone. You might want to remember that some diabetics
>> do well on the ADA recommended diet.
>
>I'll bet they have to take meds in order to accomplish
>that, though.
>
>Priscilla

A lot of people who are not on the ADA diet need meds too. If
you don't, then great for you. You are in the minority

Sleepy

---------------------------------------
Q. How do republicans have sex?

R. They don't. They only screw the poor.
----------------------------------------

Stephanie

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

Stephanie

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

Yes, Priscilla, I do take meds. I take Lantus, Humolog, and
Humilin N. (synthetic insulins) Steph

"Priscilla Ballou" <phb@world.std.com> wrote in message
news:phb-58408B.14595510082003@news.verizon.net...
> In article <vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com>,
> "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>
> > Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not useful
> > to anyone. You
might
> > want to remember that some diabetics do well on the ADA
> > recommended
diet.
>
> I'll bet they have to take meds in order to accomplish
> that, though.
>
> Priscilla

Priscilla

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

In article <bh6d8f$42r$4@reader2.panix.com>,
""Wendy Baker"" <wbaker@panix.com> wrote:

> Priscilla Ballou <phb@world.std.com> wrote:
> : In article <vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com>,
> : "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
>
> : > Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not
> : > useful to anyone. You might want to remember that some
> : > diabetics do well on the ADA recommended diet.
>
> : I'll bet they have to take meds in order to accomplish
> : that, though.

> I am no boster of the ADA diet, as it didn't work for me at
> 150-160 carb grams a day. I am having success with
> 60-100grams a day and meds. I see no higher virtue in doing
> the control without meds if they are necessary. Many of us
> on all kinds of carb levels require meds to keep our bgs in
> order. It doesn't make us less "better" than those whose
> diabetes is less advanced and, therefore have sufficient
> effective beta cells to not require meds with their diet and
> exercise.

I never said it did. What I'm saying is that some folks who
follow ADA diet might not need meds if they low-carbed
instead. It's part of the damage ADA does. They set people
up for dependence on meds when they might not otherwise
need them.

Priscilla

Proconsul

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

"Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:vje39at77bf6ee@corp.supernews.com...
| Proconsul, I have seen various versions of the ADA
| recommended diet. (dating back to the old exchange program)
| I never saw one that had one ounce of meat a
day
| and more than 100g of carbs at a meal. Are you sure that the
| suggested
diet
| came from the ADA, or an ill informed nurse and dietician?

How many "ADAs" are there?....:) The dietician and nurses all
used materials with ADA printed all over them.....

| Also, I never said that anyone should blindly follow
| the ADA's
suggestions.
| I think, however, that blanket statements accusing the ADA
| of murderesque intent are not well considered. (that was the
| purpose of my saying "inflammatory" - perhaps that was too
| strong) I was trying to point out (apparently, rather
| poorly) that some people do well on the suggested
diet,
| and that I don't believe that the ADA is trying to kill me
| (or others).

The incredibly stupid and obviously incorrect information they
publish should convince anyone that they are not a source to
be trusted or followed.....

| Obviously, whatever diet you were given did not work for
| you. And, as you should have done, you looked for other
| methods. Fortunately, you have
found
| a way of eating that works for you. Actually, I have had
| pretty good success with their guidelines. I am able to
| balance my sugars, shots (I'm
| T1) and exercise using their suggestions. (Of course, that
| is, when I follow it---sometimes I go off the deep end
| and do what I want, and my sugars reflect it.)

No diabetic can benefit from their high carb, high med
approach. Even if you have had "pretty good success" using
their methods, your success would have been much greater using
the low carb, adequate meds approach. I don't buy into this
YMMV stuff - the laws of physics and human physiology aren't
"flexible" as is something like "situational ethics".

There is just too much real evidence available that
contradicts everything the ADA says for the organization to be
considered even marginally credible....

| I was probably a little more aggresive on my post to Jenny,
| and for that I apologize. However, I do think it is wrong to
| deem the ADA as the evil empire because it's suggested diet
| doesn't work for everybody. Everyone
is
| different, and has different needs. Obviously, no single
| diet will work
for
| everyone.

Respectfully, I don't agree. Following the ADA's diet will
lead at best to one becoming a blind multiple amputee with
renal shutdown and at worst to being dead.....

While no single diet works for everyone, certain basic
principles DO work for everyone. If you're diabetic, and you
expect to control your blood sugar, you'll have to limit
carbs, one way or the other.....!

FER

| Steph
|
| "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
| news:HOvZa.8077$qf.4320@lakeread06...
| > It's not "tacky" to post the absolute truth - the ADA
| > recommended diet borders on being criminal.....
| >
| > I doubt anyone has had "success" with their diet. In my
| > case, they
limited
| > meat to one ounce per day. They loaded up carbs to more
| > than 100 grams
per
| > meal. I ate ONE meal as they suggested, and even with a
| > portion that was only about four ounces total, my BS went
| > up 150 points. Their response?
| Have
| > your doctor increase your meds.....!!!!!
| >
| > I fired the diabetic nurses AND the near-criminal
| > dietician that day. On
a
| > sensible low carb regimen, by BS averages in the 80s
| > and 90s.
| >
| > There is no "rocket science" involved in determining just
| > how dangerous
| the
| > ADA and it's phony propaganda are.....
| >
| > PC
| >
| > "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
| > news:vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com...
| > | Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not
| > | useful to anyone. You
| might
| > | want to remember that some diabetics do well on the ADA
| > | recommended
| diet.
| > | Others do not. I'm happy that you have found a way of
| > | eating that
works
| > for
| > | you. If you do not support the ADA, and their efforts to
| > | help
diabetes
| > | education and research, then so be it. However, I think
| > | it is tacky
to
| > | accuse them of "proudly killing people with diabetes
| > | throughout the decades." Steph
| > |
| > | "Jenny" <jenny_the_bean@yahoo.com> wrote in message
| > | news:bh5f01$6a5$1@bob.news.rcn.net...
| > | > The American Diabetes Association. Proudly killing
| > | > people with
| diabetes
| > | > throughout the decades.
| > | >
| > | > One only hopes that the people in the organization who
| > | > put out this
| > | dietary
| > | > advice crap will take their own advice, die, and make
| > | > room for some
| > people
| > | > who actually know something about controlling diabetes
| > | > through diet
to
| > | come
| > | > into the organization.
| > | >
| > | > But since they're funded by the companies that reap
| > | > huge profits off
| of
| > | the
| > | > elevated blood sugars their "diabetic diet" causes,
| > | > I'm not holding
my
| > | > breath.
| > | >
| > | > -- Jenny
| > | > 168.5/138.5 30 lbs lost by 8/2/03! Low Carb 9/1998 -
| > | > 8/2001 and 11/10/02 - Now
| > | >
| > | > http://www.geocities.com/jenny_the_bean How to
| > | > calculate your need for protein * How much people
| > | > really lose
| > each
| > | > month * Water Weight Gain & Loss * The "Two Gram Cure"
| > | > for Hunger
| > | Cravings
| > | > * Characteristics of Successful Dieters *
| > | > Indispensible Low Carb
| Treats
| > *
| > | > Should You Count that Low Impact Carb? * Curing
| > | > Ketobreath *
Exercise
| > | > Starting from Zero * NEW! Do Starch Blockers Work?
| > | >
| > | >
| > | > "Shadow-Spirit" <mrgantlet911(remove)@earthlink.net>
| > | > wrote in
message
| > | > news:1060480362.295023@nntp.acecape.com...
| > | > >
| > | > > yes i know other research has said other ways are
| > | > > better but after review it was not enough to change
| > | > > the minds of the USFDA ( center for food safety and
| > | > > applied
| nutrition
| > or
| > | > the American Diabetes Association.)
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > Using the Diabetes Food Pyramid
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > |
| http://www.diabetes.org/main/health/nutrition/foodpyramid/f-
| oodpyramid.jsp
| > | > >
| > | > > The Diabetes Food Pyramid has six sections for food
| > | > > groups. These
| > | > sections vary in size. The largest group -- grains,
| > | > beans, and
| > | > > starchy vegetables -- is on the bottom. This means
| > | > > that you
should
| > eat
| > | > more servings of grains, beans, and starchy vegetables
| > | > than
| > | > > of any of the other foods. The smallest group --
| > | > > fats, sweets,
and
| > | > alcohol -- is at the top of the pyramid. This tells
| > | > you to eat
| > | > > very few servings from these food groups.
| > | > >
| > | > > Eat servings from all the food groups other than the
| > | > > fats, sweets,
| and
| > | > alcohol, every day. Eat the recommended number of
| > | > servings
| > | > > on the pyramid within each food group. The exact
| > | > > number of
servings
| > you
| > | > need depends on your diabetes goals, calorie and
| > | > nutrition
| > | > > needs, your lifestyle, and the foods you like to
| > | > > eat. Divide the
| > number
| > | > of servings you should eat among the meals and snacks
| > | > you
| > | > > eat each day. The Diabetes Food Pyramid makes it
| > | > > easier to
remember
| > | what
| > | > to eat. For a healthy meal plan that is based on your
| > | > > individual needs, you should work with a registered
| > | > > dietitian (RD)
| > with
| > | > expertise in diabetes management. To find an RD with
| > | > > diabetes expertise, read the section below titled
| > | > > For More Help
and
| > | > Support.
| > | > >
| > | > > The First Step
| > | > >
| > | > > For most people, a great first step to healthier
| > | > > eating habits is
to
| > | make
| > | > a few simple changes. Perhaps you decide to eat more
| > | > > fruits and vegetables and to go lighter on the meats
| > | > > and sweets.
If
| > you
| > | > make these changes and stick to them, pat yourself on
| > | > the
| > | > > back. Before you make more changes, make sure you
| > | > > maintain the
ones
| > you
| > | > have made. When you are ready, decide on the next
| > | > change.
| > | > > Keep it easy to accomplish.
| > | > >
| > | > > As you continue to change your eating habits to
| > | > > manage your
| diabetes,
| > | the
| > | > diabetes food pyramid can help you and your whole
| > | > family
| > | > > eat healthier. Here are some more healthy eating
| > | > > tips:
| > | > >
| > | > > a.. Eat a wide variety of foods every day. Try new
| > | > > foods.
Eating
| a
| > | > wide variety of foods, even from the same food group,
| > | > helps
| > | > > you get all the nutrients to be in good health. For
| > | > > example,
within
| > the
| > | > fruit group, bananas are a good source of potassium
| > | > and
| > | > > oranges are a good source of vitamin C.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > b.. Be physically active every day. Try to
| > | > > accumulate 30
minutes
| > of
| > | > physical activity each day. Start slowly, by taking
| > | > the
| > | > > stairs and walking more, or doing more yardwork.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > c.. Eat high-fiber foods such as fruits,
| > | > > vegetables, whole
grains
| > and
| > | > beans. These are the foods you should primarily eat.
| > | > They
| > | > > provide lots of vitamins, minerals, and fiber, yet
| > | > > they provide
the
| > | least
| > | > concentrated sources of calories.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > d.. Use less added fat. It is well known that
| > | > > eating many
foods
| > that
| > | > are high in fat, particularly ones with too much
| > | > saturated
| > | > > fat and dietary cholesterol, can contribute to the
| > | > > development of
| > | clogged
| > | > and narrowed arteries. This can lead to heart disease
| > | > and
| > | > > people with diabetes are at an even greater risk for
| > | > > developing
| heart
| > | > disease.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > e.. Use less added sugar. Sugary foods, like jelly
| > | > > beans and
| > regular
| > | > soft drinks, and sweets, like ice cream and cookies,
| > | > are
| > | > > not healthy for anyone. They provide a bunch of
| > | > > calories with
| little
| > or
| > | > no nutrients. Yet sugary foods and sweets are
| > | > enjoyable to
| > | > > eat. Strike a balance -- practice moderation.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > f.. Use less added salt and sodium. Americans eat
| > | > > more salt
and
| > | sodium
| > | > than they need. Most of the sodium we eat comes from
| > | > > processed foods like cold cuts, prepared foods,
| > | > > canned soups, and
| > | pickles.
| > | > To keep your salt and sodium intake moderate, shake
| > | > the
| > | > > salt shaker lightly and use more fresh and
| > | > > unprocessed foods.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > g.. If you choose to drink alcohol, limit the
| > | > > amount and drink
it
| > with
| > | > food. Check with your health care professional about
| > | > an
| > | > > amount that's safe for you. Next Step ... Learn More
| > | > >
| > | > > Starches and Diabetes
| > | > >
| > | > > Eat more starches! It is healthiest for everyone to
| > | > > eat more
whole
| > | > grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas,
| > | > corn,
| > | > > potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for
| > | > > you because
they
| > have
| > | > very little fat, saturated fat, or cholesterol.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > Vegetables and Diabetes
| > | > >
| > | > > When it comes to vegetables, people with diabetes
| > | > > should eat at
| least
| > | > three servings a day. Vegetables are healthy, chock
| > | > full of
| > | > > vitamins and minerals, and some give you much needed
| > | > > fiber. The
| best
| > | > part: vegetables are naturally low in calories.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > Fruit and Diabetes Questions about fruit keep coming
| > | > > up. Will fruit juice increase
| blood
| > | > glucose levels more quickly than a piece of fruit?
| > | > Should
| > | > > you avoid fruit in the morning because your blood
| > | > > glucose might be
| > | higher
| > | > than at other times in the day? Is it better to eat
| > | > fruit
| > | > > with meals rather than snacks?
| > | > >
| > | > > Milk and Diabetes People with diabetes are at the
| > | > > same risk for osteoporosis as the
| > | general
| > | > public. Fat-free (skim) and low-fat (1%) milk and
| > | > yogurt
| > | > > will provide the calcium you need without saturated
| > | > > fat and
| > cholesterol.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > Protein (Meat, Poultry, Seafood, Cheese, Eggs, Etc.)
| > | > > and Diabetes
| > | > >
| > | > > People with diabetes have no less or more need for
| > | > > protein than
the
| > | > general public. The American Diabetes Association
| > | > nutrition
| > | > > guidelines suggest eating between 10 and 20% of your
| > | > > calories as
| > | protein.
| > | > The Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for protein is
| > | > 0.8
| > | > > grams per kilogram of body weight.
| > | > >
| > | > > Fat and Diabetes
| > | > >
| > | > > Fat ought to make up about 30% of your calories. The
| > | > > total amount
of
| > fat
| > | > you eat should be based on the foods you like and your
| > | > > goals for eating healthy and blood lipid (blood
| > | > > fats) and glucose
| > | control.
| > | > You need an individualized meal plan.
| > | > >
| > | > > Sugar and Diabetes
| > | > >
| > | > > Research studies show that, gram for gram, sugars,
| > | > > like table
sugar,
| > do
| > | > not raise blood glucose any more quickly than do other
| > | > > carbohydrates, like potatoes, rice or pasta. This
| > | > > research holds
| true
| > | for
| > | > people with type 1 and type 2 diabetes.
| > | > >
| > | > > Alcohol and Diabetes
| > | > >
| > | > > Beyond all the health and safety concerns about
| > | > > alcohol, if you
have
| > | > diabetes and are on diabetes medications that lower
| > | > blood
| > | > > glucose, you need to practice caution. The action of
| > | > > insulin and
| some
| > | > diabetes pills, sulfonylureas and meglitinides
| > | > (Prandin), is
| > | > > to lower blood glucose by making more insulin. So,
| > | > > you should not
| > drink
| > | > when your blood glucose is low or when your stomach is
| > | > > empty.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > For More Help and Support
| > | > >
| > | > > To find out exactly how much of what types of foods
| > | > > you should
eat,
| we
| > | > suggest you work with a registered dietitian (RD) who
| > | > has
| > | > > experience working with people who have diabetes.
| > | > > This person can
| help
| > | > support your efforts to change your eating habits and
| > | > control
| > | > > your blood glucose level. To find a registered
| > | > > dietitian near you:
| > | > >
| > | > > 1. Locate the names of American Diabetes Association
| > | > > Recognized
| > Diabetes
| > | > Education Programs in your area or call 1-800-DIABETES
| > | > > (1-800-342-2383).
| > | > >
| > | > > 2. Call The American Dietetic Association at
| > | > > 1-800-366-1655. Ask
for
| > the
| > | > names of dietitians in your area that specialize in
| > | > > diabetes.
| > | > >
| > | > > 3. Call the American Association of Diabetes
| > | > > Educators, at
| > | 1-800-TEAM-UP4
| > | > (1-800-832-6874). Ask for the names of several
| > | > diabetes
| > | > > educators in your zip code.
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | > > --
| > | > > http://www.diabetes.org Shadow-Spirit 39 - Male -
| > | > > Type - 2 Dx'd January 27, 2003 330lbs now 264 A1C =
| > | > > 5.1 July 15
| > | > >
| > | > >
| > | >
| > | >
| > |
| > |
| >
| >
|
|

Proconsul

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

If you ignore the ADA diet and embrace low carbing, your need
for meds will go down dramatically......and your control will
improve dramatically.....

PC

"Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:vje3e0pni8ks9e@corp.supernews.com...
| Yes, Priscilla, I do take meds. I take Lantus, Humolog, and
| Humilin N. (synthetic insulins) Steph
|
| "Priscilla Ballou" <phb@world.std.com> wrote in message
| news:phb-58408B.14595510082003@news.verizon.net...
| > In article <vjcrotnpaqlb30@corp.supernews.com>,
| > "Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote:
| >
| > > Jenny, These types of inflammatory comments are not
| > > useful to anyone. You
| might
| > > want to remember that some diabetics do well on the ADA
| > > recommended
| diet.
| >
| > I'll bet they have to take meds in order to accomplish
| > that, though.
| >
| > Priscilla
|
|

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 22:32:09 -0500, "Stephanie Kolban"
<noemail@noemail.com> wrote:

>Yes, Priscilla, I do take meds. I take Lantus, Humolog, and
>Humilin N. (synthetic insulins) Steph
>

Hi Steph

It's a T2 thing.

I'm happy to see my kids eat along the lines the ada
advocates. Whole grain bread, real fruit instead of those
processed bars, leaner cuts of meat etc.

Its probably a great diet for a healthy active NON insulin
resistant person or even a NON insulin resistant T1

For many of us insulin resistant T2s Their advice or diet
simply doesn't work, in many cases it makes us worse.

so we have some choices, Run high bg Take meds, or increased
amounts of meds ( which sometimes only work for so many years
which is a bit of a worry for younger T2s ) or find an
alternative that does work.

I can see how the ada diet could work well for you. but for me
at least, they are giving advice that would harm me.

Regards Andrew.

Kurt

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

"Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:<bpzZa.8093$qf.5593@lakeread06>...
> "kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:9c6cde11.0308101259.1deeb76f@posting.google.com...
> | Ah, Julie Bove, always the voice of reason in this tempest
> | tossed sea of ADA bashing. It amazes me Proconsul labels
> | the ADA "criminal"...maybe I'll forward the note over to
> | their lawyers.
>
> I said "borders" on being criminal - and that's certianly
> accurate....

Well, I disagree...and in this sue happyworld if your
statement even had an ounce of reality then the ADA would be
spending more time in court than Martha Stewart.

I sense that you're one of the cynics in the world that thinks
that all big organizations are out to "get us"...just not
true, sorry.

> Ms. Bove certainly congributed nothing of value with her
> defense of the indefensible - neither have you.....:)

Ms. Bove contributes a great deal to this group and her notes
are always worth reading. If you only place value on
reactionary posts, dramatic overgeneralizations, and
distorting the truth based on one's paranoia...then I
guess you would find no value in common sense.

> You need to learn a lot more about the ADA - they aren't
> interested in finding a cure for "us", but rather fostering
> a politicized agenda.

You need to stop the conspiracy theories. I happen to know a
good deal about the inner workings of the ADA and it is run by
many educated andcompassionate people. They do wish to find a
cure and work on that daily, 24/7. Sometimes while we're
sleeping and you're up on your roof with a shotgun waiting to
fend off invaders from Mars!

>Follow their advice and you'll find yourself at best a blind
>multiple amputee and at worst you'll be dead....

Oh yes, the ADA is worse than crack dealers. LOL. You really
need to turn the volume down on your hated, it's drowning out
your common sense. I know you're a born again Low-Carb zealot
but it only hurts your cause to strike out so vehemently
against those who don't subscribe to your beliefs.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know there are
others in here who disagree with the ADA diet and they choose
to follow other guidelines when it comes to eating. That. I'm
sure, would be exactly what the ADA would recommend they do.
Everyone is different, everyone has to find what works for
them. It's as simple as that. For me, I follow a WOE that has
come from my own study, discussions with my Endo, and trial
and error.

I wish you all the best health and will double my support,
both emotionally and financially, to the ADA so that when
their efforts do lead to a cure we will both celebrate our
good fortune.

Regards,

Kurt

Proconsul

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

"kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c6cde11.0308102129.4b4eb2b3@posting.google.com...
| "Proconsul" <nospam@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:<bpzZa.8093$qf.5593@lakeread06>...
| > "kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
| > news:9c6cde11.0308101259.1deeb76f@posting.google.com...
| > | Ah, Julie Bove, always the voice of reason in this
| > | tempest tossed sea of ADA bashing. It amazes me
| > | Proconsul labels the ADA "criminal"...maybe I'll forward
| > | the note over to their lawyers.
| >
| > I said "borders" on being criminal - and that's certianly
| > accurate....
|
| Well, I disagree...and in this sue happyworld if your
| statement even had an ounce of reality then the ADA would be
| spending more time in court than Martha Stewart.

Permission granted - disagree all you like but you cannot
refute anything I said....

| I sense that you're one of the cynics in the world that
| thinks that all big organizations are out to "get us"...just
| not true, sorry.

On the contrary, I think all the nonsense posted about "them"
being out to get "us" is just that, it's nonsense. I don't
give the ADA that much credit - they simply are following an
agenda. It happens to be wrong.....

| > Ms. Bove certainly congributed nothing of value with her
| > defense of the indefensible - neither have you.....:)
|
| Ms. Bove contributes a great deal to this group and her
| notes are always worth reading. If you only place value
| on reactionary posts, dramatic overgeneralizations, and
| distorting the truth based on one's paranoia...then I
| guess you would find no value in common sense.

I greatly value common sense - let's talk about it when you
find yourself able to understand what it is and who exhibits
it in this venue.....:)

| > You need to learn a lot more about the ADA - they aren't
| > interested in finding a cure for "us", but rather
| > fostering a politicized agenda.
|
| You need to stop the conspiracy theories.

Baloney - I don't buy ANY conspiracy theory. It's not that
complicated, the ADA is simply wrong.....

|I happen to know a good
| deal about the inner workings of the ADA and it is run by
| many educated andcompassionate people. They do wish to find
| a cure and work on that daily, 24/7.

More insupportable nonsense - where is that common sense you
were talking about? What ADA publishes is so far off the mark
as to identify them clearly as being totally wrongheaded in
virtually everything they say. They are wrong....!

|Sometimes while we're sleeping and you're
| up on your roof with a shotgun waiting to fend off invaders
| from Mars!

Less than clever insults are the mark of the limited mind
failing to express itself.....:)

Quit while you're behind.....:)

| >Follow their advice and you'll find yourself at best a
| >blind multiple amputee
and
| > at worst you'll be dead....
|
| Oh yes, the ADA is worse than crack dealers. LOL.

I certainly didn't say that, but I don't hold with crack
dealers either. Do you always LOL about serious matters or is
it just that you can't tell a serious matter when you see
it?.....:)

|You really need to
| turn the volume down on your hated, it's drowning out your
| common sense. I know you're a born again Low-Carb zealot but
| it only hurts your cause to strike out so vehemently against
| those who don't subscribe to your beliefs.

Rubbish - can you REFUTE the argument that low carbing
is better than high carbing for diabetes? Somehow, I
doubt it.....

| I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. I know there
| are others in here who disagree with the ADA diet and they
| choose to follow other guidelines when it comes to eating.
| That. I'm sure, would be exactly what the ADA would
| recommend they do. Everyone is different, everyone has to
| find what works for them. It's as simple as that. For me, I
| follow a WOE that has come from my own study, discussions
| with my Endo, and trial and error.

More politically correct, emotional nonsense up to the point
where you admit to being treated by an endo. That part makes
sense. Managing diabetes is not something subject to all these
"variants" you read about here which are so popular among
those who are spectacularly unsuccessful. What works and what
doesn't is pretty well defined and available for all to learn
to use - except for those who can't understand that they can't
pig out on chocolate eclairs any more and that they must limit
what they put in their mouths forever.....

| I wish you all the best health and will double my support,
| both emotionally and financially, to the ADA so that when
| their efforts do lead to a cure we will both celebrate our
| good fortune.

I certainly wish you well - but I'd never waste a moment's
time or a dime on the ADA until they start dealing with
reality and clean up their act....!

When and if a cure is found - a most unlikely occurrence - you
can be sure that the ADA will have had nothing to do with it
AND if the cure really works, the ADA will be against it
continuing to advise diabetics to eat lots of carbs and take
lots of meds....!

PC

Tony Lew

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

"Richard Bollar" <bollar@bollar.org> wrote in message
news:<KJadnfGz09LkPKuiU-KYuQ@giganews.com>...
> Why should he? By his accounts the ADA diet is working for
> him with minimal meds, so I don't see any reason why he'd
> want to consider anything else.

It worked for him because he was a 330-lb porker who lost 60
lbs since January. It's the weight loss that resulted in
better blood glucose levels. ANY diet low enough in calories
to cause him to lose 60 lbs would have helped him regardless
of the carb level.

>
> --
> Will you sponsor me in the Tour de Cure? http://main.diabet-
> es.org/site/TR?pg=personal&fr_id=1058&px=1626087
>
>
> "Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
> news:bh66vm$udsh4$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> >
> > Thanks for the reply, Tony. Talking to Sushi Boy is like
> > talking to a
> brick
> > wall. My only hope is that he sees the light at some point
> > and looks to other sources than just the ADA.

Kurt

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

From: "Proconsul" nospam@nospam.com Date: 08/10/2003 11:13 PM
Pacific Daylight Time Message-id:
<ruGZa.8135$qf.4454@lakeread06>

>Permission granted - disagree all you like but you
>cannot refute
anything I
>said....

I would but you really haven't said much of anything other
than saying what the ADA stands for borders on being criminal.
Kinda hard to refute a preposterous statement like that.

>I greatly value common sense - let's talk about it when you
>find
yourself
>able to understand what it is and who exhibits it in this
venue.....:)

I'll stand by my support of Julie Bove, a long time
contributor to this newsgroup and one that doesn't resort to
dogmatic slander to try and prove her point. There are also
many others in here who I respect, Ronnie, Old Al, Mack,
Loretta, and many many more. They also believe in eating
lower carb but not to the extreme you seem to think others
should follow.

>Baloney - I don't buy ANY conspiracy theory. It's not that
complicated, the
>ADA is simply wrong.....

The dietary guidelines they post, along with lots of other
information and good advice for diabetics, has been approved
by the top doctors and nutrionists in the country. Sorry that
I prefer to listen to them than to you, but I'm just kooky
that way. They also mention, a number of times, that one has
to work with their personal physicians to find what works best
for the individual. Nothing wrong with that. When it comes to
carbs they suggest eating whole grains and a variety of
complex carbs. Nothing wrong with that, either. Of course
everyone is different and everyone will need to find what they
can handle. The website is not a one stop, everything you need
to know, shop. It is a beginning with some sound advice and
general guidelines. Given how most people eat, the diet they
suggest is a marked improvement. The top people in the country
don't believe one should eat extreme low-carb and that is what
seems to bother you the most. If they told everyone to eat
nothing but bacon all day then the bgs might improve, but at
the cost of other major problems.

>More insupportable nonsense - where is that common
>sense you were
talking
>about?

You can find it at www.diabetes.org

|Sometimes while we're sleeping and you're
| up on your roof with a shotgun waiting to fend off
| invaders from
Mars!

>Less than clever insults are the mark of the limited mind
>failing to
express
>itself.....:)

Less than clever? How dare you! That's fresh hot comedy. You
should be flattered I used my wit on you...well only 50%
because you're a half-wit. How do you like that one, PC?
Come on, put down that Atkins book for a minute and have a
good chuckle.

>Quit while you're behind.....:)

Wow, can I borrow that one?

>Do you always LOL about serious matters or is it just that
>you can't
tell a
>serious matter when you see it?.....:)

Well, the humor was about you. And yes, humor sometimes is
needed in serious matters. I find a clever jab is much better
than typing :) after everything I write. Know what I mean, PC?

>Rubbish - can you REFUTE the argument that low carbing is
>better than
high
>carbing for diabetes? Somehow, I doubt it.....

Depends on what you consider low carbing and high carbing. It
varies greatly for each person. For some people eating too few
carbs can be very detrimental to their health. Some here also
consider 100 carbs a day to be too high. Not for me it isn't.

>I certainly wish you well - but I'd never waste a moment's
>time or a
dime on
>the ADA until they start dealing with reality and clean up
>their
act....!

According to you? And your credentials are? Please post them
since you seem to posture yourself as an authority.

>When and if a cure is found - a most unlikely occurrence -
>you can be
sure
>that the ADA will have had nothing to do with it AND if the
>cure
really
>works, the ADA will be against it continuing to advise
>diabetics to
eat lots
>of carbs and take lots of meds....!

See, you really do have a sense of humor. There's hope
for you yet!

Kurt

Proconsul

Mon, Aug-11-03, 05:13

This exchange isn't worth continuing, but I'll leave you with
one thought......

The recipe of the day on www.diabetes.org is Ham with
Blueberry sauce.....it's a real winner for diabetics!

The serving size is three ounces - big enough so that you
might almost be able to see it. That "serving" contains 12
grams of carbs, nine of which are sugar. They also advise you
that the dish is "high sodium"...1463 mg per serving.....just
the thing for your heart!

One wonders how anyone's BS would react to a realistic serving
of such a "healthy" dish, not to mention how much water you'd
retain from 2500 mg of sodium or so......:)

How really sensible - high carbs, mostly sugar AND high
sodium....perfect for diabetes control and so "heart
healthy", too!

Now you can continue to defend those idiots, but I'm not going
to play "mind games" with you any longer....:)

You have a nice day!

PC

"kurt" <kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9c6cde11.0308102311.76de71dd@posting.google.com...
| From: "Proconsul" nospam@nospam.com Date: 08/10/2003 11:13
| PM Pacific Daylight Time Message-id:
| <ruGZa.8135$qf.4454@lakeread06>
|
| >Permission granted - disagree all you like but you
| >cannot refute
| anything I
| >said....
|
| I would but you really haven't said much of anything other
| than saying what the ADA stands for borders on being
| criminal. Kinda hard to refute a preposterous statement
| like that.
|
| >I greatly value common sense - let's talk about it when
| >you find
| yourself
| >able to understand what it is and who exhibits it in this
| venue.....:)
|
| I'll stand by my support of Julie Bove, a long time
| contributor to this newsgroup and one that doesn't resort to
| dogmatic slander to try and prove her point. There are also
| many others in here who I respect, Ronnie, Old Al, Mack,
| Loretta, and many many more. They also believe in eating
| lower carb but not to the extreme you seem to think others
| should follow.
|
| >Baloney - I don't buy ANY conspiracy theory. It's not that
| complicated, the
| >ADA is simply wrong.....
|
| The dietary guidelines they post, along with lots of other
| information and good advice for diabetics, has been approved
| by the top doctors and nutrionists in the country. Sorry
| that I prefer to listen to them than to you, but I'm just
| kooky that way. They also mention, a number of times, that
| one has to work with their personal physicians to find what
| works best for the individual. Nothing wrong with that. When
| it comes to carbs they suggest eating whole grains and a
| variety of complex carbs. Nothing wrong with that, either.
| Of course everyone is different and everyone will need to
| find what they can handle. The website is not a one stop,
| everything you need to know, shop. It is a beginning with
| some sound advice and general guidelines. Given how most
| people eat, the diet they suggest is a marked improvement.
| The top people in the country don't believe one should eat
| extreme low-carb and that is what seems to bother you the
| most. If they told everyone to eat nothing but bacon all day
| then the bgs might improve, but at the cost of other major
| problems.
|
| >More insupportable nonsense - where is that common sense
| >you were
| talking
| >about?
|
| You can find it at www.diabetes.org
|
| |Sometimes while we're sleeping and you're
| | up on your roof with a shotgun waiting to fend off
| | invaders from
| Mars!
|
| >Less than clever insults are the mark of the limited mind
| >failing to
| express
| >itself.....:)
|
| Less than clever? How dare you! That's fresh hot comedy. You
| should be flattered I used my wit on you...well only 50%
| because you're a half-wit. How do you like that one, PC?
| Come on, put down that Atkins book for a minute and have a
| good chuckle.
|
| >Quit while you're behind.....:)
|
| Wow, can I borrow that one?
|
| >Do you always LOL about serious matters or is it just that
| >you can't
| tell a
| >serious matter when you see it?.....:)
|
| Well, the humor was about you. And yes, humor sometimes is
| needed in serious matters. I find a clever jab is much
| better than typing :) after everything I write. Know what I
| mean, PC?
|
| >Rubbish - can you REFUTE the argument that low carbing is
| >better than
| high
| >carbing for diabetes? Somehow, I doubt it.....
|
| Depends on what you consider low carbing and high carbing.
| It varies greatly for each person. For some people eating
| too few carbs can be very detrimental to their health. Some
| here also consider 100 carbs a day to be too high. Not for
| me it isn't.
|
| >I certainly wish you well - but I'd never waste a moment's
| >time or a
| dime on
| >the ADA until they start dealing with reality and clean
| >up their
| act....!
|
| According to you? And your credentials are? Please post them
| since you seem to posture yourself as an authority.
|
| >When and if a cure is found - a most unlikely occurrence -
| >you can be
| sure
| >that the ADA will have had nothing to do with it AND if
| >the cure
| really
| >works, the ADA will be against it continuing to advise
| >diabetics to
| eat lots
| >of carbs and take lots of meds....!
|
| See, you really do have a sense of humor. There's hope for
| you yet!
|
| Kurt

Lisa N

Mon, Aug-11-03, 14:20

Take a look:

http://www.diabetes.org/main/aboutus/sponsors/recognize.jsp

Tony Lew

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

"Julie Bove" <jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:<vjd8sakeudim99@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Tony Lew" <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5c7896da.0308100952.4bacb4cd@posting.google.com...
>
>
> <snip>
>
> > Hmmm, so they're telling you to eat a diet heavy on
> > starches, then admit that starches are equivalent to
> > table sugar in affecting blood glucose. This is
> > preposterous. I'm starting to think the ADA is a shill
> > for the drug companies; they're recommending a diet that
> > is guaranteed to make diabetics need more glucophage,
> > glipizide, etc to control their blood glucose.
>
> The key here is the serving size. Take cereal for example.
> For most cereals, the serving size listed is far larger than
> the serving size a diabetic is allowed, even on the ADA
> plan. Ditto for fruit, rice, baked beans, and plenty of
> other foods. 15 g of carb is a serving on the ADA diet. 6 x
> 15 = 90 g of carb per day, not counting the non-starchy
> vegetables. I don't think that's an overly carby diet. Now
> granted, I did go to the low end of the scale for what they
> call healthy eating. But you can't just pick and choose
> various comments to focus on. They also say something to the
> effect of the diet varying from person to person depending
> on height, weight, activity etc.

Since it appears you like math, let's do a little more. The
ADA recommends that you eat:

30% of calories from fat
10-20% " protein.

A simple calculation shows that you therefore have to eat at
least 100-50 = 50% of your calories from carbohydrates. Your
6-serving example has 90g of carbs = 90 x 4 = 360 calories. So
for someone to eat only 6 servings of starches and still be
within the ADA recommendations for fat and protein, they'd
only be able to eat 720 calories a day. Maybe a midget could
follow the ADA recommendations and only eat 6 servings a day,
but a more average person eating, say, 1800 calories a day
would have to eat 900 calories = 225 g = 15 ADA servings of
carbs. That looks to me like a very high carb diet.

Julie Bove

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

"Tony Lew" <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:5c7896da.0308111152.457ad09f@posting.google.com...
> "Julie Bove" <jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:<vjd8sakeudim99@corp.supernews.com>...
> > "Tony Lew" <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > news:5c7896da.0308100952.4bacb4cd@posting.google.com...
> >
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > > Hmmm, so they're telling you to eat a diet heavy on
> > > starches, then
admit
> > > that starches are equivalent to table sugar in affecting
> > > blood
glucose.
> > > This is preposterous. I'm starting to think the ADA is a
> > > shill for the drug companies; they're recommending a
> > > diet that is guaranteed to make diabetics need more
> > > glucophage, glipizide, etc to control their blood
> > > glucose.
> >
> > The key here is the serving size. Take cereal for example.
> > For most cereals, the serving size listed is far larger
> > than the serving size a diabetic is allowed, even on the
> > ADA plan. Ditto for fruit, rice, baked beans, and plenty
> > of other foods. 15 g of carb is a serving on the ADA diet.
> > 6 x 15 = 90 g of carb per day, not counting the
> > non-starchy vegetables. I don't think that's an overly
> > carby diet. Now granted, I
did
> > go to the low end of the scale for what they call healthy
> > eating. But
you
> > can't just pick and choose various comments to focus on.
> > They also say something to the effect of the diet varying
> > from person to person
depending
> > on height, weight, activity etc.
>
> Since it appears you like math, let's do a little more.
> The ADA recommends that you eat:
>
> 30% of calories from fat
> 10-20% " protein.
>
> A simple calculation shows that you therefore have to eat at
> least 100-50 = 50% of your calories from carbohydrates. Your
> 6-serving example has 90g of carbs = 90 x 4 = 360 calories.
> So for someone to eat only 6 servings of starches and still
> be within the ADA
recommendations
> for fat and protein, they'd only be able to eat 720 calories
> a day. Maybe a midget could follow the ADA recommendations
> and only eat 6
servings
> a day, but a more average person eating, say, 1800
> calories a day would have to eat 900 calories = 225 g = 15
> ADA servings of carbs. That looks to me like a very high
> carb diet.

But it also says this will vary from person to person. I am on
the 1800 calorie plan. I eat about 185 g of carb per day.
That's 10 carb exchanges plus 4 servings of non-starchy
veggies. Now granted, that's on a good day. I have only been
eating about 5-15 g of carb for breakfast of late. As to the
math part, no. I hate math. It just seems to follow me around
everywhere I go. I also eat 3 servings of fat and 6 servings
(1 serving = 1 oz. meat) of protein per day. Don't know how
they percentages stack up there. As I said, I hate math.

I wouldn't call this an overly carby diet since it is a huge
restriction over what I used to eat. My typical diet used to
be pancakes with light syrup or lowfat oatmeal muffins (made
from scratch) for breakfast, a bean burrito and rice for
lunch, more beans and rice for dinner, or maybe pasta and
beans. I did eat other vegetables, but dried beans have always
been my favorite.

And as I have said before, I do not follow this diet to the
letter. I did in the beginning. But in the beginning, I also
had the worst time controlling my BG, specifically the hypos.
I had to make sure I ate enough carbs so I didn't go hypo, but
not too many or my BG would be high. Now I have more of a
tendency to go high than hypo. And again, as I have said
before, this probably relates to my thyroid. On a good day, I
can follow this plan with no problems. If I am having trouble
with the BG, then I cut back on the carbs. Today was a good
day. Woke up to 135. Not a good number I know, but pretty good
for me. I ate nothing but cottage cheese for breakfast. Had my
normal lunch and was 104 at two hours later. A perfectly
normal number.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Tim Kettri

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

Kurt , dont bother as the phrase " borders on being criminal "
is NOT the same as what you seem to have posted .

I Know the Legal-System , the Law-Library .

There would be Absoultely No Case At All .

tim - Disclamer - ( Not Legal Advice )

kurtwheeling1965@hotmail.com (kurt) wrote in message
news:<9c6cde11.0308101259.1deeb76f@posting.google.com>...
> It amazes me <snip> labels the ADA "criminal"...maybe I'll
> forward the note over to their lawyers.

Sleepyman

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

On Sun, 10 Aug 2003 16:10:14 -0400, "Julie Bove"
<jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote:

>Absoulte nonsense! Even I don't eat just one ounce of meat
>per day. Now take that with a grain of salt because I'm not
>really much of a meat eater. Perhaps I should substitute the
>word protein for meat. I eat 6 servings (6 ounces of meat or
>the equivalent) per day. If you were cut back to only 1
>ounce, then I should think you had some other medical problem
>to warrant it, such as kidney problems. And when you say
>"their response", are you referring to the ADA? Did you
>actually call the ADA and this is what they said? Or are you
>referring to a dietician?

>As I have said before, there is no one diet that works for
>everyone. Many people do well on the ADA diet.

>Nothing phony about it. Keep in mind that there are many
>different variables to diabetes. A person who is type 1 can
>likely get away with eating more carbs than we type 2's. But
>there again, YMMV.Now I do have a bone to pick (minus the
>meat) in that most of the information you see regarding diet
>and other things is aimed at people with type 1. Several of
>my Drs. have told me that most of the research that has been
>done over the years has been for people with type 1.

Julie, You must admit you are a special case. First, due to
your thyroid problems, and second due to your propensity to
have hypos that most T2s don't have. You also react poorly to
many medications. Most T2s will not do well on the amount of
carbs you need to maintain. How can any diabetic take
seriously any organization that amongst other things says:

>"Eat more starches! It is healthiest for everyone to eat more
>whole grains, beans, and starchy vegetables such as peas,
>corn, potatoes and winter squash. Starches are good for you
>because they have very little fat, saturated fat, or
>cholesterol."

Eat more starches? Peas, Corn and Potatoes? Come on. You know
damn well that these things are dangerous for us, though some
tolerate one or two starches a little better than others, they
are still not foods you would recommend a diabetic to eat
would you? Especially a newbie who didn't know any better?
Further down on the page, it compares the carb in sugar as
similar to that in potatoes. Lets make a leap here. Eat more
starches,such as potatoes. carb in sugar same as that in
potatoes, therefore you should eat more sugar.

Recommended %'s of Caloric intake: 30%fat, 10-20%protien.
What's left? 50-60% of caloric intake should be carbohydrates
including fiber.

This is the Diabetic Pyramid, not the one for the General
Public, but specifically aimed at diabetics.

Sorry kiddo, it may work for you, but it sure in hell won't
work for me, and I betcha most other diabetics either.

The ADA may be trying to be all things to all people, but by
doing so, I think that they are harming those very same
people. Especially the newly Dx'd.

I just skimmed the ADA pyramid page, as I haven't read it
since I first dismissed it a couple of years ago, and didn't
delve deeply into it, but I bet I can find a lot more complete
BS if I did delve deeply.

Sleepy

---------------------------------------
Q. How do republicans have sex?

R. They don't. They only screw the poor.
----------------------------------------

Stephanie

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

Andrew, I'm trying to get better about snipping, so hopefully
I haven't butchered the point of your note. Here goes...

>
> It's a T2 thing.
>
Thanks. I needed someone to say that. I kept feeling myself
getting sucked into this discussion and actually getting
rather angry about it! (Then I'd get angry at myself for
letting it get to me...and round and round it goes!) I think I
simply get really frustrated when blanket statement are made.

> I'm happy to see my kids eat along the lines the ada
> advocates. Whole grain bread, real fruit instead of those
> processed bars, leaner cuts of meat etc.
>
That's the part of the diet I like, and I think is healthy.
The obvious question is how many carbs can a person handle. I
don't think that anyone can answer that question for anyone
other than for themself. (which is why the ADA diet is only a
guideline...not a rulebook) The best advice I ever heard was
to eat to your meter.

> Its probably a great diet for a healthy active NON insulin
> resistant person or even a NON insulin resistant T1
>
> For many of us insulin resistant T2s Their advice or diet
> simply doesn't work, in many cases it makes us worse.
>
As far as I know, I have not experienced insulin resistance.
Hopefully, I won't. Since I have no experience with insulin
resistance, I need to keep my nose out of that portion of
this argument.

> so we have some choices, Run high bg Take meds, or increased
> amounts of meds ( which sometimes only work for so many
> years which is a bit of a worry for younger T2s ) or find an
> alternative that does work.
>
> I can see how the ada diet could work well for you. but for
> me at least, they are giving advice that would harm me.
>
> Regards Andrew

I think that the ADA will eventually come out with variations
to its current diet. I wouldn't be surprised to see one geared
more towards T2s who do not seem to be able to tolerate over,
for example, 100g carbs a day; and one geared towards T1s and
T2s who can handle more than that. The more I learn about T2
(which is VERY little, bordering on nothing!) the more I think
that T1s and T2s have virtually nothing in common. (other than
high blood sugars and some of the complications, of course) It
appears that what is broken in me is not what is broken in
you. (and vice versa)

I appreciate your post. Thanks. Steph

Arnie Macy

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

"Sleepyman" wrote in part ...

Eat more starches? Peas, Corn and Potatoes? Come on. You know
damn well that these things are dangerous for us, though some
tolerate one or two starches a little better than others,
they are still not foods you would recommend a diabetic to
eat would you? Especially a newbie who didn't know any
better? Further down on the page, it compares the carb in
sugar as similar to that in potatoes. Lets make a leap here.
Eat more starches,such as potatoes. carb in sugar same as
that in potatoes, therefore you should eat more sugar.
Recommended %'s of Caloric intake: 30%fat, 10-20%protien.
what's left? 50-60% of caloric intake should be carbohydrates
including fiber.
_____________________________________________________________-
__________

I agree completely with your assessment, Sleepy. I am going to
answer a post by Kurt here in a minute, but wanted to add to
your piece first. Here's what the ADA says on their web site
concerning general health and diet:

"People with diabetes have the same nutritional needs as
anyone else. Along with exercise and medications (insulin or
oral diabetes pills), nutrition is important for good diabetes
control. By eating well-balanced meals in the correct amounts,
you can keep your blood glucose level as close to normal
(non-diabetes level) as possible."

"Registered dietitians (RDs) have training and expertise in
how the body uses food. RDs who understand diabetes can teach
you how the food you eat changes your blood glucose level and
how to coordinate your diabetes medications and eating. Do
you know how many calories you should eat each day? How to
cut down on the fat in your meals? How to make eating time
more interesting? An RD can help you learn the answers to
these, and lots of other questions. Your dietitian will work
with you to create a healthy eating plan that includes your
favorite foods."
____________________________________________________________-
__________

You'll notice in the above two quotes, they specifically
mention MEDICATION as part of diabetes control along with diet
and or exercise. I've looked deeply into the site and can't
find a single reference to diet and exercise alone to control
glucose. I guess they don't consider that an option.
____________________________________________________________-
__________

"Forget about eating with abandon. The key to healthy living
is moderation. Air-popped popcorn may be low in fat, but it
still has calories. And calories count. If you can control the
portion sizes of the food you eat, you will be able to eat a
wider variety of foods, including your favorites, and still
keep your blood sugar in your target range."

"Here are some beginning hints. See a dietitian for more
advice. Stir-fry foods in tiny amounts of oil and lots of
seasonings. Choose nonfat or low-fat selections, such as
nonfat or 1% milk or low-fat cheese. Keep portion sizes on
target. Avoid fried foods -- bake, grill, broil, or roast
vegetables and meat instead."
_____________________________________________________________-
__________

This "low fat" advice is fine as far as it goes, but we *all*
know what popcorn can do to our BG's. Yes there are some good
choices out there for low-carb popcorn, but I don't see them
talking about it here. As to low fat milk, same problem. May
be low in fat, but can still be very high in carbs. Again, no
mention of the high carbs even in low fat milk. IMHO, *very*
misleading. Finally, they don't talk about how your favorite
foods can spike your BG, all they seem to be concerned with is
low fat and portion size.

Arnie -

Shadow-Spi

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

"Stephanie Kolban" <noemail@noemail.com> wrote in message
news:vjfcu4ojkgil8e@corp.supernews.com...
: Andrew, I'm trying to get better about snipping, so
: hopefully I haven't butchered the point of your note.
: Here goes...
:
: >
: > It's a T2 thing.
: >
: Thanks. I needed someone to say that. I kept feeling myself
: getting sucked into this discussion and actually getting
: rather angry about it! (Then I'd get angry at myself for
: letting it get to me...and round and round it goes!) I
: think I simply get really frustrated when blanket statement
: are made.
:
:
: > I'm happy to see my kids eat along the lines the ada
: > advocates. Whole grain bread, real fruit instead of those
: > processed bars, leaner cuts of meat etc.
: >
: That's the part of the diet I like, and I think is healthy.
: The obvious question is how many carbs can a person handle.
: I don't think that anyone can answer that question for
: anyone other than for themself. (which is why the ADA diet
: is only a guideline...not a rulebook) The best advice I ever
: heard was to eat to your meter.
:
: > Its probably a great diet for a healthy active NON insulin
: > resistant person or even a NON insulin resistant T1
: >
: > For many of us insulin resistant T2s Their advice or diet
: > simply doesn't work, in many cases it makes us worse.
: >
: As far as I know, I have not experienced insulin resistance.
: Hopefully, I won't. Since I have no experience with insulin
: resistance, I need to keep my nose out of that portion of
: this argument.
:
: > so we have some choices, Run high bg Take meds, or
: > increased amounts of meds ( which sometimes only work for
: > so many years which is a bit of a worry for younger T2s )
: > or find an alternative that does work.
: >
: > I can see how the ada diet could work well for you.
: > but for me at least, they are giving advice that would
: > harm me.
: >
: > Regards Andrew
:
: I think that the ADA will eventually come out with
: variations to its current diet. I wouldn't be surprised to
: see one geared more towards T2s who do not seem to be able
: to tolerate over, for example, 100g carbs a day; and one
: geared towards T1s and T2s who can handle more than that.
: The more I learn about T2 (which is VERY little, bordering
: on nothing!) the more I think that T1s and T2s have
: virtually nothing in common. (other than high blood sugars
: and some of the complications, of course) It appears that
: what is broken in me is not what is broken in you. (and
: vice versa)
:
: I appreciate your post. Thanks. Steph
:
Hi Steph: i have a few views I agree i feel the food pyramid
is a starting point they do say see a dietitian. and exercise
is a very important to include in any diet, to help its
success a question i do have is - do they feel its safer for
someone to take the meds to control the BS while on the food
pyramid diet or to increase the protein for fat? while i want
off the meds for future complications warnings i read i also
read other types of warnings. who is right - imho eventually
they will find out. I hope - all us as diabetics can do is
share our experiences to help those doing the research - if
one day a doctor tells me something happen because i ate too
many carbs or fat or what ever i will share it - with no
worries of if i chose the right diet or not. to help them all
we have to do is share our experiences good and bad. Tom

Arnie Macy

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

"kurt" wrote in part ...

You need to stop the conspiracy theories. I happen to know a
good deal about the inner workings of the ADA and it is run
by many educated and compassionate people. They do wish to
find a cure and work on that daily,
24/7. Sometimes while we're sleeping and you're up on your
roof with a shotgun waiting to fend off invaders from
Mars! Oh yes, the ADA is worse than crack dealers. LOL.
You really need to turn the volume down on your hated,
it's drowning out your common sense. I know you're a
born again Low-Carb zealot but it only hurts your cause
to strike out so vehemently against those who don't
subscribe to your beliefs. I guess we'll just have to
agree to disagree. I know there are others in here who
disagree with the ADA diet and they choose to follow
other guidelines when it comes to eating. That. I'm
sure, would be exactly what the ADA would recommend
they do. Everyone is different, everyone has to find
what works for them. It's as simple as that. For me, I
follow a WOE that has come from my own study,
discussions with my Endo, and trial and error.
_____________________________________________________________-
_______________

Kurt,

I'm quite sure that there are many people working for the ADA
who are well educated and compassionate. My problem with their
approach is that it seems to be geared more toward type 1
diabetics. For example, they talk about the use of diet and
exercise *and* medications for use in controlling diabetes,
but never mention the use of diet and exercise alone. I've
searched the site extensively and can't find a reference to
it. As you know, the vast majority of diabetics are type 2. I
would think that the largest diabetes organization in the
world would pay more attention to that fact. The food pyramid
is definitely geared to type 1s. The diet they recommend
cannot be tolerated by the vast majority of type 2's. It is
much too high in carbs and makes it extremely difficult to
control BGs without the use of ever increasing medication.. Of
course there are exceptions -- just not that many. A recent
quote (from World News and Report) seems to signal that the
ADA might be moving to change their stance on carbs -- I sure
hope so. It would be a welcome and wise decision.

"The ADA is responsive to new scientific data and is likely to
incorporate this information into new dietary guidelines with
a lower proportion of carbohydrates", says ADA Board member
Barbara Kahn, a physician and diabetes expert at Harvard
Medical School"

Arnie -

"

Stephanie

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

Here I go snipping again...apologies up front if I messed up
the point...

> Hi Steph: i have a few views I agree i feel the food pyramid
> is a starting point they do say see a dietitian. and
> exercise is a very important to include in any diet, to help
> its success a question i do have is - do they feel its safer
> for someone to take the meds to control the BS while on the
> food pyramid diet or to increase the protein for fat?

I have no earthly idea...I'm not sure I understand the
question. Are you asking if drs think it "better" to control
sugars with medication rather than by diet and exercise alone?
Or, are you asking if the higher percentage of protein and fat
contained in a lower carb diet delays (or eliminates) the
spike of carbs, which in turn allows some T2s to come off of
meds...and if so would drs prefer to have a patient on meds or
a higher protein diet? If either of these is your question, I
still don't have any idea as to what the answer is.

while i want off
> the meds for future complications warnings i read i also
> read other types of warnings. who is right - imho eventually
> they will find out. I hope - all us as diabetics can do is
> share our experiences to help those doing the research - if
> one day a doctor tells me something happen because i ate too
> many carbs or fat or what ever i will share it - with no
> worries of if i chose the right diet or not. to help them
> all we have to do is share our experiences good and bad. Tom
>
I agree that it is very important to share the experiences,
regardless of the outcome. I don't believe that there is a
"perfect" diet that fits everyone. The best way for me to
learn is to read about other persons' experiences, so I can
make an educated decision about my own health. Steph

Arnie Macy

Mon, Aug-11-03, 18:17

"Shadow-Spirit" wrote ...

Hi Steph: i have a few views I agree i feel the food pyramid
is a starting point they do say see a dietitian. and exercise
is a very important to include in any diet, to help its
success a question i do have is - do they feel its safer for
someone to take the meds to control the BS while on the food
pyramid diet or to increase the protein for fat? while i want
off the meds for future complications warnings i read i also
read other types of warnings. who is right - imho eventually
they will find out. I hope - all us as diabetics can do is
share our experiences to help those doing the research - if
one day a doctor tells me something happen because i ate too
many carbs or fat or what ever i will share it - with no
worries of if i chose the right diet or not. to help them all
we have to do is share our experiences good and bad.
_____________________________________________________________-
____________

Tom,

I looked at the ADA site again today and found a few things
that bothered
me. This fits in with your comment about getting off of the
meds. Below are the quotes, then I'll comment:

"People with diabetes have the same nutritional needs as
anyone else. Along with exercise and medications (insulin or
oral diabetes pills), nutrition is important for good diabetes
control. By eating well-balanced meals in the correct amounts,
you can keep your blood glucose level as close to normal
(non-diabetes level) as possible."

"Registered dietitians (RDs) have training and expertise in
how the body uses food. RDs who understand diabetes can teach
you how the food you eat changes your blood glucose level and
how to coordinate your diabetes medications and eating. Do
you know how many calories you should eat each day? How to
cut down on the fat in your meals? How to make eating time
more interesting? An RD can help you learn the answers to
these, and lots of other questions. Your dietitian will work
with you to create a healthy eating plan that includes your
favorite foods."
_____________________________________________________________-
_____________

What I found interesting was the fact that they mention the
use of diet and or exercise and MEDICATION, but never mention
diet and exercise alone. I looked very deeply into the web
site and I can't find a mention of diet and exercise alone
anywhere. Did they just forget to mention it, or do they not
consider this an option? My personal diet is low in carbs but
also in fat. I eat lean pieces of beef or chicken and bake,
grill, or broil them (rarely fried) -- I use a very low dose
of oral meds, once a day and will see if I can reduce even
that very soon. I'm just surprised that the site doesn't
mention this option (reduced or no meds) What are your
thoughts, as I know you want to get off of the meds as soon
as possible.

Arnie -

Tony Lew

Tue, Aug-12-03, 05:14

"Julie Bove" <jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote in message
news:<vjg0s5sg0eoeab@corp.supernews.com>...
> "Tony Lew" <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:5c7896da.0308111152.457ad09f@posting.google.com...
> > "Julie Bove" <jnospambove@bestweb.net> wrote in message
> news:<vjd8sakeudim99@corp.supernews.com>...
> > > "Tony Lew" <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> > > news:5c7896da.0308100952.4bacb4cd@posting.google.com...
> > >
> > >
> > > <snip>
> > >
> > > > Hmmm, so they're telling you to eat a diet heavy on
> > > > starches, then
> admit
> > > > that starches are equivalent to table sugar in
> > > > affecting blood
> glucose.
> > > > This is preposterous. I'm starting to think the ADA is
> > > > a shill for the drug companies; they're recommending a
> > > > diet that is guaranteed to make diabetics need more
> > > > glucophage, glipizide, etc to control their blood
> > > > glucose.
> > >
> > > The key here is the serving size. Take cereal for
> > > example. For most cereals, the serving size listed is
> > > far larger than the serving size a diabetic is allowed,
> > > even on the ADA plan. Ditto for fruit, rice, baked
> > > beans, and plenty of other foods. 15 g of carb is a
> > > serving on the ADA diet. 6 x 15 = 90 g of carb per day,
> > > not counting the non-starchy vegetables. I don't think
> > > that's an overly carby diet. Now granted, I
> did
> > > go to the low end of the scale for what they call
> > > healthy eating. But
> you
> > > can't just pick and choose various comments to focus on.
> > > They also say something to the effect of the diet
> > > varying from person to person
> depending
> > > on height, weight, activity etc.
> >
> > Since it appears you like math, let's do a little more.
> > The ADA recommends that you eat:
> >
> > 30% of calories from fat
> > 10-20% " protein.
> >
> > A simple calculation shows that you therefore have to eat
> > at least 100-50 = 50% of your calories from carbohydrates.
> > Your 6-serving example has 90g of carbs = 90 x 4 = 360
> > calories. So for someone to eat only 6 servings of
> > starches and still be within the ADA
> recommendations
> > for fat and protein, they'd only be able to eat 720
> > calories a day. Maybe a midget could follow the ADA
> > recommendations and only eat 6
> servings
> > a day, but a more average person eating, say, 1800
> > calories a day would have to eat 900 calories = 225 g = 15
> > ADA servings of carbs. That looks to me like a very high
> > carb diet.
>
> But it also says this will vary from person to person. I am
> on the 1800 calorie plan. I eat about 185 g of carb per
> day. That's 10 carb exchanges plus 4 servings of
> non-starchy veggies. Now granted, that's on a good day. I
> have only been eating about 5-15 g of carb for breakfast of
> late. As to the math part, no. I hate math. It just seems
> to follow me around everywhere I go. I also eat 3 servings
> of fat and 6 servings (1 serving = 1 oz. meat) of protein
> per day. Don't know how they percentages stack up there. As
> I said, I hate math.

It's easy to figure out. You're eating 41% of calories from
carbs, so fat+protein = 59%. The ADA plan only allows 50%, so
you're not really following the ADA diet.

>
> I wouldn't call this an overly carby diet since it is a huge
> restriction over what I used to eat.

But then you really aren't eating the ADA diet. At your
calorie level, the ADA diet would contain 225 g of carbs.

> My typical diet used to be pancakes with light syrup or
> lowfat oatmeal muffins (made from scratch) for breakfast, a
> bean burrito and rice for lunch, more beans and rice for
> dinner, or maybe pasta and beans. I did eat other
> vegetables, but dried beans have always been my favorite.
>
> And as I have said before, I do not follow this diet to the
> letter. I did in the beginning. But in the beginning, I also
> had the worst time controlling my BG, specifically the
> hypos. I had to make sure I ate enough carbs so I didn't go
> hypo, but not too many or my BG would be high. Now I have
> more of a tendency to go high than hypo. And again, as I
> have said before, this probably relates to my thyroid. On a
> good day, I can follow this plan with no problems. If I am
> having trouble with the BG, then I cut back on the carbs.
> Today was a good day. Woke up to 135. Not a good number I
> know, but pretty good for me. I ate nothing but cottage
> cheese for breakfast. Had my normal lunch and was 104 at two
> hours later. A perfectly normal number.

Kurt

Tue, Aug-12-03, 05:14

From: "Arnie Macy" kt4st@csam.net Date: 8/11/2003 5:01 PM
Pacific Standard Time

>>Kurt,I'm quite sure that there are many people working
>>for the ADA
who are well educated and compassionate. My problem with their
approach is that it seems to be geared more toward type 1
diabetics. For example, they talk about the use of diet and
exercise *and* medications for use in controlling diabetes,
but never mention the use of diet and exercise alone. I've
searched the site extensively and can't find a reference to
it. As you know, the vast majority of diabetics are type 2. I
would think that the largest diabetes organization in the
world would pay more attention to that fact. The food pyramid
is definitely geared to type 1s. The diet they recommend
cannot be tolerated by the vast majority of type 2's. It is
much too high in carbs and makes it extremely difficult to
control BGs without the use of ever increasing medication.. Of
course there are exceptions -- just not that many. A recent
quote (from World News and Report) seems to signal that the
ADA might be moving to change their stance on carbs -- I sure
hope so. It would be a welcome and wise decision.

"The ADA is responsive to new scientific data and is likely to
incorporate this information into new dietary guidelines with
a lower proportion of carbohydrates", says ADA Board member
Barbara Kahn, a physician and diabetes expert at Harvard
Medical School"

Arnie ->>

Arnie,

First of all let me thank you for posting a pleasant message.
Although we may disagree on this issue it's nice to know two
humans can discuss it without all the vitriol.

Not sure why the ADA site doesn't mention a world without
meds. Perhaps it's because most people who come to the site
do so for basic information. Newly diagnosed people who come
searching for advice in a very dark hour of their
lives...when first diagnosed. At that point, T1's as well as
T2's are usually on some kind of medication to bring their
bodies back to normalcy. I'm a Type 1 and I've heard other
Type 2's complain that the site seems very Type 1-centric. I
will send a note to them regarding that issue and I urge you
to do the same. Diabetes is a very complex disease and I
think the site is there to start the process and offer a how
to 101 approach. The more we each take responsibility for
finding out more about how diabetes affects us individually
then the better off we will all be. My hats off to any Type 2
who has the ability to keep their diabetes in control by diet
and exercise alone. It takes a lot of discipline and surely
is something to strive for.

Best to you and your quest for good health.

Kurt

"

Julie Bove

Tue, Aug-12-03, 05:14

"Tony Lew" <rosescripter@yahoo.com> wrote in message

> It's easy to figure out. You're eating 41% of calories from
> carbs, so fat+protein = 59%. The ADA plan only allows 50%,
> so you're not really following the ADA diet.

That doesn't sound right since most of what I eat is carb.
Keep in mind that I eat very little meat and the main source
of my protein is still dried beans. Even so, I am on the
Exchange Program. And that is an ADA diet. There is more than
one you know. The ADA themself says this will vary from person
to person.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Tue, Aug-12-03, 05:14

lol remind me not to read what you say when i'm coming out of
a low . :-)

--
RK T1 - 5/00

"Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
news:bh97k1$vdd6g$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...
: "Sleepyman" wrote in part ...
:
: Eat more starches? Peas, Corn and Potatoes? Come on. You
: know damn well that these things are dangerous for us,
: though some tolerate one or two starches a little better
: than others, they are still not foods you would recommend a
: diabetic to eat would you? Especially a newbie who didn't
: know any better? Further down on the page, it compares the
: carb in sugar as similar to that in potatoes. Lets make a
: leap here. Eat more
starches,such
: as potatoes. carb in sugar same as that in potatoes,
: therefore you should eat more sugar. Recommended %'s of
: Caloric intake: 30%fat,
10-20%protien.
: what's left? 50-60% of caloric intake should be
: carbohydrates including fiber.
: ___________________________________________________________-
: ____________
:
: I agree completely with your assessment, Sleepy. I am going
: to answer a post by Kurt here in a minute, but wanted to add
: to your piece first. Here's what the ADA says on their web
: site concerning general health and diet:
:
: "People with diabetes have the same nutritional needs as
: anyone else.
Along
: with exercise and medications (insulin or oral diabetes
: pills), nutrition
is
: important for good diabetes control. By eating well-balanced
: meals in the correct amounts, you can keep your blood
: glucose level as close to normal (non-diabetes level) as
: possible."
:
: "Registered dietitians (RDs) have training and expertise in
: how the body uses food. RDs who understand diabetes can
: teach you how the food you eat changes your blood glucose
: level and how to coordinate your diabetes medications and
: eating. Do you know how many calories you should eat each
: day? How to cut down on the fat in your meals? How to make
: eating time more interesting? An RD can help you learn the
: answers to these, and lots of other questions. Your
: dietitian will work with you to create a healthy eating plan
: that includes your favorite foods."
: ___________________________________________________________-
: ___________
:
: You'll notice in the above two quotes, they
: specifically mention
MEDICATION
: as part of diabetes control along with diet and or exercise.
: I've looked deeply into the site and can't find a single
: reference to diet and
exercise
: alone to control glucose. I guess they don't consider that
: an option.
: ___________________________________________________________-
: ___________
:
: "Forget about eating with abandon. The key to healthy
: living is
moderation.
: Air-popped popcorn may be low in fat, but it still has
: calories. And calories count. If you can control the portion
: sizes of the food you eat, you will be able to eat a wider
: variety of foods, including your
favorites,
: and still keep your blood sugar in your target range."
:
: "Here are some beginning hints. See a dietitian for
: more advice.
Stir-fry
: foods in tiny amounts of oil and lots of seasonings. Choose
: nonfat or low-fat selections, such as nonfat or 1% milk or
: low-fat cheese. Keep portion sizes on target. Avoid fried
: foods -- bake, grill, broil, or
roast
: vegetables and meat instead."
: ___________________________________________________________-
: ____________
:
: This "low fat" advice is fine as far as it goes, but we
: *all* know what popcorn can do to our BG's. Yes there are
: some good choices out there for low-carb popcorn, but I
: don't see them talking about it here. As to low
fat
: milk, same problem. May be low in fat, but can still be
: very high in
carbs.
: Again, no mention of the high carbs even in low fat milk.
: IMHO, *very* misleading. Finally, they don't talk about how
: your favorite foods can spike your BG, all they seem to be
: concerned with is low fat and portion size.
:
: Arnie -
:
:
:
:
:
:
:

Julie Bove

Tue, Aug-12-03, 05:14

"Arnie Macy" <kt4st@csam.net> wrote in message
news:bh97k1$vdd6g$1@ID-166180.news.uni-berlin.de...

<snip>

> This "low fat" advice is fine as far as it goes, but we
> *all* know what popcorn can do to our BG's. Yes there are
> some good choices out there for low-carb popcorn, but I
> don't see them talking about it here. As to low
fat
> milk, same problem. May be low in fat, but can still be
> very high in
carbs.
> Again, no mention of the high carbs even in low fat milk.
> IMHO, *very* misleading. Finally, they don't talk about how
> your favorite foods can spike your BG, all they seem to be
> concerned with is low fat and portion size.

I've seen 3 different dieticians who all pushed the low fat
thing. Since I was a vegetarian at the time, I was also pushed
to increase the amount of cheese I was eating because I needed
the calcium. I don't drink milk. And prior to diabetes had
been on a really low fat diet, so cheese was a rarity. None of
the dieticians seemed to realize that the low/no fat versions
of many foods have more carbs than the full fat "real" foods.
You'd think if they were advising people to eat something,
they'd at least have a look at the nutritional labels! So on
the one hand, they were telling me to eat low/no fat stuff to
the point where my diet had too little fat in it. They then
told me to add butter, margarine or oil to my foods. That
makes no sense to me! I do eat reduced fat cottage cheese. But
I don't care for most low/no fat cheeses. I simply eat the
real stuff now and I don't add fat to my other foods.

As for the misleading part, you are quite right on that. I
can't tell you how many people I know that have read things
like this and then tell me that I don't really have to watch
what I eat. All three of the dieticians I saw had little fake
foods to demonstrate portion sizes. A serving of rice is
1/3 of a cup. That might work for some people, but not for me!
I'm not going to bother cooking something (or even ordering
it) if that's all I can eat of it. Ditto for most sweets.
All three dieticians made a big deal about how I could eat
cake on my birthday (or my daughter's birthday) and gave me
some kind of flunky teensy portion size. Of course, this was
just the cake and not the icing. Again, silly because I've
always despised cake. I like to bake and decorate them. Just
don't like to eat them. If it's something that IMO is empty
calories to begin with and not something I like, no way am I
going to find a way to work it into my eating plan.

--
Type 2 http://users.bestweb.net/~jbove/

Sleepyman

Tue, Aug-12-03, 05:14

On Mon, 11 Aug 2003 19:06:49 -0400, "Arnie Macy"
<kt4st@csam.net> wrote:

>I agree completely with your assessment, Sleepy. I am going
>to answer a post by Kurt here in a minute, but wanted to add
>to your piece first. Here's what the ADA says on their web
>site concerning general health and diet:
>
>"People with diabetes have the same nutritional needs as
>anyone else. Along with exercise and medications (insulin or
>oral diabetes pills), nutrition is important for good
>diabetes control. By eating well-balanced meals in the
>correct amounts, you can keep your blood glucose level as
>close to normal (non-diabetes level) as possible."
>
>"Registered dietitians (RDs) have training and expertise in
>how the body uses food. RDs who understand diabetes can teach
>you how the food you eat changes your blood glucose level and
>how to coordinate your diabetes medications and eating. Do
>you know how many calories you should eat each day? How to
>cut down on the fat in your meals? How to make eating time
>more interesting? An RD can help you learn the answers to
>these, and lots of other questions. Your dietitian will work
>with you to create a healthy eating plan that includes your
>favorite foods."
>____________________________________________________________-
>__________
>
>You'll notice in the above two quotes, they specifically
>mention MEDICATION as part of diabetes control along with
>diet and or exercise. I've looked deeply into the site and
>can't find a single reference to diet and exercise alone to
>control glucose. I guess they don't consider that an option.
>____________________________________________________________-
>__________
>
>"Forget about eating with abandon. The key to healthy living
>is moderation. Air-popped popcorn may be low in fat, but it
>still has calories. And calories count. If you can control
>the portion sizes of the food you eat, you will be able to
>eat a wider variety of foods, including your favorites, and
>still keep your blood sugar in your target range."
>
>"Here are some beginning hints. See a dietitian for more
>advice. Stir-fry foods in tiny amounts of oil and lots of
>seasonings. Choose nonfat or low-fat selections, such as
>nonfat or 1% milk or low-fat cheese. Keep portion sizes on
>target. Avoid fried foods -- bake, grill, broil, or roast
>vegetables and meat instead."
>____________________________________________________________-
>___________
>
>This "low fat" advice is fine as far as it goes, but we *all*
>know what popcorn can do to our BG's. Yes there are some good
>choices out there for low-carb popcorn, but I don't see them
>talking about it here. As to low fat milk, same problem. May
>be low in fat, but can still be very high in carbs. Again, no
>mention of the high carbs even in low fat milk. IMHO, *very*
>misleading. Finally, they don't talk about how your favorite
>foods can spike your BG, all they seem to be concerned with
>is low fat and portion size.
>
>Arnie -
>
Unfortunately the things you are pointing out are the things
that make their all round take on things so insidious. They
combine something so basic, that you would think everyone
would know it, with a total screwball that is damaging to most
T2s. I am beginning to think that the ADA is mostly aimed at
T1s with Mds that still think of diabetes as it was thought of
20 years ago, with a little info for T2s thrown in to broaden
the base. The only person who could even attempt eating this
way would be a T1 who used a *lot* of insulin, and was aiming
for an A1c in the 7 to 7.5 range. Everything is aimed at low
fat, low protein, Cardio health as the 1st priority, as you
know I'm sure. To me it is simple. Our problem is how we deal
with glucose. That is what differentiates us from the general
population. Therefore our first priority is glucose control
and the rest of what we eat should be tweaked to provide us
with a healthy balance of vitamins, minerals, and other needed
nutrients. If we find as we progress that what we are doing is
damaging to kidneys, liver, cardio health, then we tweak that,
until we eventually end up with something that controls our
glucose, and provides us with most everything else we need.
There will be trade offs along the way. This is where we
diverge I think. If and that's a big if, you can get all
systems in go mode, without meds, then fine. I do not think,
however, that getting off meds should be a goal. If you are
lucky enough to control things with D&E alone, God Bless you,
you are a special person. But, when first dx'd the priority
should be to get BG under control, and then all the rest. I
think in most cases this means meds, and as many as you need
to get some semblance of order. After that? More work, and
then trying to cut the med load if you can. Do not however,
think you have failed if you need meds to maintain control. We
have meds for a purpose. Use them for that purpose. Sorry for
the meandering thought process. This is all predicated on the
assumption that we are doing what we are capable of doing in
the exercise department. Of course there will be exceptions,
there always are. HeHe.......

Sleepy

---------------------------------------
Q. How do republicans have sex?

R. They don't. They only screw the poor.
----------------------------------------