Low-Carb not for healthy folks!

[walken1]

O.k., you can all get ready to flame me for what I'm about to say. I'm a 39 y.o., healthy, athletic male who chose the low carb approach to diet after reading how healthy they were....not to lose weight. In fact, at the time I was preparing for a bodybuilding contest. I was following my usual very low fat diet and I just over-did it....my bodyfat was at 3% but I lost to much muscle. I started low-carbing and followed all the rules. I knew I was bound to gain weight because up was the only place to go in the state I was in. However, it snuck up on me and I had gained 10 lbs, most probably fat, in 9 weeks! I just didn't get it! Then it hit me.....most of the people on these diets are some real fatties....they weren't eating a healthy, low fat diet before they started. Low fat diets have been blamed for obesity and flamed to death! I believe that most people who go on a low-carb diet ate burgers, fried, cherry pies, twinkies, and oreos by the box before they started.....so any diet, even Atkins, will make them lose weight. It's real simple....before they stuffed their faces with fat and sugar. Atkins takes away the sugar and there you go.....no miracles here! I'm going back to my old healthy diet where I will be lean and actually have the energy for my workouts. I believe most could profit from a low-fat diet.....low-carbers just don't have the discipline to give up sugar and fat!....end of story.

[tholian8]

You're wrong about some of us, at least. I never binged, never overate significantly (couldn't stand the feeling of being stuffed), don't even like sweets particularly, but the weight just crept up on me over the years. I know why--I ate slightly too much and most importantly, I didn't move enough. I accept the blame for that and now I am doing something about it. I use keto dieting because I don't get hungry and therefore I can stick to it and lose fat. I love weightlifting and keto means I can't lift as heavy as I otherwise would, but it's a small price to pay right now because the weight is coming off. And I'm managing to keep up with my workouts, although I am making slower progress than I would on a higher carb diet.

[Lisa N]

I believe that most people who go on a low-carb diet ate burgers, fried, cherry pies, twinkies, and oreos by the box before they started

You're welcome to your opinion of course, but that's a vast overgeneralization. Yes, some people who begin low carbing weren't following any particular diet and ate very unhealthy. However, if you do a search and read some of the posts here you'll also find many from those who followed low fat for years and had very little or no success with it or even gained weight on it.
Myself? Twinkies and all that other crap were far from my list of allowed foods. I was following the prescribed diet for diabetics..ADA which is low fat and gaining weight on it as well as having poor control of my blood sugars. That's why I began low carbing...to gain better blood sugar control, which I did in a matter of a few weeks. The weight loss has been an added side-benefit.
Stay away from sugar? You bet! Stay away from fat? Why, since fat is a necessary dietary component for health?

[walken1]

Naturally, in your case, low carb is the way to go! I don't understand why doctors ever thought that low fat was the way to go for a diabetic...their problems with blood fats are directly related to their problem metabolizing sugar....I think that anyone with an insulin problem will do best on an Atkins type diet. My point was, if you are lean and healthy, don't sabotage yourself with a low carb plan.

[cc48510]

I believe that most people who go on a low-carb diet ate burgers, fried, cherry pies, twinkies, and oreos by the box before they started

Burgers -- Only had them once or twice a month.
Fried Foods -- Rarely ate fried foods.
Cherry Pies -- I've NEVER had pie in my entire life.
Twinkies -- I can't remember ever eating a Twinkie except one time in 2001.
Oreos -- Only ate them occassionally and hadn't had ANY since 1999.

From 1999 - 2002, I normally ate a very low-fat diet (5-25% Fat). I ate Pasta, Rice, Bread, Crackers, and drank Soda most of the time. Soda was my one weakness. I almost never ate Candy. I had red meat once every week or two, and even then I kept below 30% Fat. In this same period I gained over 100 pounds and over 1 Foot of waistline.

[Lisa N]

My point was, if you are lean and healthy, don't sabotage yourself with a low carb plan.

If you are lean and healthy, a low carb plan can still be of benefit health-wise. Nobody needs the highly processed, sugar-filled crap full of hydrogenated oils that passes for healthy food these days, including those that are already lean and healthy. Thin people get heart disease and have strokes, too. However...there's also no need to go on an ultra low carb plan such as Atkins induction if you are already lean and healthy; maintainance levels of carbs would be appropriate there. What level is maintainance level? That depends on your age, gender, level of activity and a host of other factors. Some who are excercising strenuously can eat up to 100 grams of carb per day or even a bit more and still maintain. Others find that something in the range of 50-80 grams suits them better.
I'm sure you can agree that eating less processed food and more veggies, nuts, lower glycemic fruits, whole grains, adequate amounts of protein and healthy fats while avoiding sugar and transfats couldn't be considered unhealthy? That's what maintainance on low carb is.

[cc48510]

my bodyfat was at 3% but I lost to much muscle.

There's your problem. For men, 3% is the Essential Fat. I.E. the amount you to live. 5% is considered the lowest safe level of Body Fat for men. If you BF% was really 3%...you were putting yourself at risk. Also, you do not state that you are sure the gain was fat. You say you figure it was. Has this been tested ? What is your current BF% ? LBM as compared to before ? If your BF is still below 5%, you need to put on a little more fat. If your Body Fat is really 3% and you are trying to reduce it, you need professional help...as you likely have an eating disorder.

[RoseTattoo]

Walken, I have another set of issues to address. I've never been overweight in my entire life, certainly not by any of the standard measures. However, I suffer from a very high cholesterol and triglycerides level that's part of a family syndrome. I've been on a low-fat, low-cholesterol, high-carb "diet" for about thirty years. (And just to add, most of my carbs were complex carbohydrates--whole wheat bread, whole grains, etc.). And I've exercised religiously for most of that time. My cholesterol and triglyceride levels INCREASED as I got older (still on my stringent--not to say, utterly depressing--low fat diet). My doctor finally put me on a totally vegetarian diet. Lots of beans, buckwheat, whole wheat spaghetti, etc. What do you think happened to my blood lipids? Take a wild guess. Bad enough for me to start on Lipitor.

So here's the deal: I've decided to low-carb (had a few pounds to lose to get to my absolutely ideal weight, anyway). I'm due for another blood test in two months. If, as I expect, my blood lipid levels are BELOW normal--total cholesterol under 150, and triglycerides in the low double digits--I will merrily toss the Lipitor in the trash and continue to eat my protein and monounsaturated fats. And wonder why I was suckered into that horrid low-fat and high-carb eating for most of my life.

[gawdess]

I believe that most people who go on a low-carb diet ate burgers, fried, cherry pies, twinkies, and oreos by the box before they started.....so any diet, even Atkins, will make them lose weight. It's real simple....before they stuffed their faces with fat and sugar.
Wow , that was a very very broad generalization about fat people and their eating habits...not unlike the general population attitudes towards fat people in general. Actually Atkins has been quite difficult for me so far...Because of all the meat and eating. Before Atkins I ate pretty good (Salads for lunch, no dressings, light dinners with lean meat...blah blah blah). I did drink milk and would have the occaisional chocolate treat. It never worked for my body...My brother in law is a bodybuilder and a personal trainer, actually he placed 2nd in his last competition and does some personal training. He subscribes to alot of the Atkins approach, especially for someone like me that has tried it all and just FAILED again and again and again..Before doing Atkins I was training for almost 2 months with very little change whatsoever. I am sorry Atkins doesnt work for you, you must naturally have a good carb burning metabolism...I however don't....I found your ending a little gruff...It goes a little more to the beat that people on Atkins will succeed and maintain low sugar and high protein diets, maintaining their weight loss and live happily ever after with an open mind and a new lease on life...THE END

[walken1]

Alright, you have all made some very good points here. Let elaborate more on what I am talking about. I WANT TO BELIEVE THAT LOW-CARB IS THE WAY TO GO!.....I mean for atheletes as well as the sedentary for a long term health solution. I don't like going out to eat at restaraunts with my wife and having them all look at me like I'm some kind of nut because the salad is the only half-way healthy thing on the menu. On a low carb diet, there's lots of things you can have. On my regular diet (not low-carb) my meals are very filling, but Spartan and boring indeed! It's a very effective diet. One misconception is that low fat equals low protein....wrong! I eat very little meat but I use alot of protein powders (made with whey, egg, and milk proteins...all are virtually fat free, carb free) to supplement my meals. My carbs consist of only the low-glycemic variety....chickpeas, beans of all sorts, boiled barley, boiled whole rye, oatmeal, boiled whole oats, and green vegetables of all kinds. NO refined carbs whatsoever. Many of you who said you failed on low-fat diets thought you were eating good carbs and you were not....bread, rice, potatoes, all have high glycemic ratings, most more than sugar. The ones that don't have a high glycemic LOAD, which is just as important. Also, here's the news....25% of calories from fat is not low fat! When carbs are present, you're body will not burn this fat, it will become fat on your body! 10-15% is low fat....just enough to allow you the essentials you need to function. Another problem I have with the low-carb/high fat approach is the satiety factor. The logic says that the high fat food will make you full so you eat less. I have not found this to be true. If I'm famished after walking six miles with an 80 lb. backpack I have a huge appetite. After eating my meat veggies and cheese, I'll have some nuts 'cause I'm still hungry....more than likely, the whole can! On my regular diet that allows for high fiber starchy carbohydrates, I can eat till I feel like I'm going to explode even though I have consumed half the calories of the high fat diet.
The bottom line is my regular diet works very well at stripping body fat while allowing you the carbs to have good energy levels. However, it's very Spartan and bland. Also, if you count calories on this diet, it's easy to over do it based on whatever majic number you think you should have.
I can't close without references one comment that was made to my original post....3% bodyfat is unhealthy and you have an eating disorder. In competetive bodybuilding, 3-5% is necessary to place, to even belong on the same stage! Ideally, you stay under 7% year round. I have gone whole summers at about 5% with no effort...I just overdid it when I decided to count calories based on someones recommendation. People who say that low body fat is unhealthy say so because they look like crap and they want to feel better about themselves! Also, I know what I gained on the Low-Carb diet was fat 'cause I can see it....when your bodyfat is below 5%, you can not only see your six-pack but your whole abdomen looks like a road map of veins and striated muscle....I still have a six pack but it looks puffier and the legs look fatter and less defined. As stated earlier, I want to adapt to a low-carb approach.....to maintain year round low body fat and to be healthier. Early homo sapiens did not eat starch foods. They ate lots of meat, fat, and healthy green vegetables. This is the ideal for our genes. Why can't I make it work for me? I'm hoping that maybe my weight gain was just a "rebound" due to lowered metabolism of calorie restriction I had accidentally induced upon myself. I just don't know. Maybe years of eating miniscule amounts of fat have damage my fat burning metabolism? I know that many on this website are good for throwing out studies and stats to back their claim....well, my mind is open and I want to hear them all! I would much like to be a lifetime low-carber!

[cc48510]

I don't like going out to eat at restaraunts with my wife and having them all look at me like I'm some kind of nut because the salad is the only half-way healthy thing on the menu. On a low carb diet, there's lots of things you can have. On my regular diet (not low-carb) my meals are very filling, but Spartan and boring indeed! It's a very effective diet.

I'd love to know which restraunts you're going to. LC Friendly restraunts are few and far between. The only LC foods are usually the Salad and Entree. The choices for sides are usually Hi-Carb, Hi-Glycemic, Starchy Foods. Though, I have found a few who will substitute something LC for the High-Carb Starches. Hopefully, more restraunts will catch on and start offering more LC Choices. But, looking at how you ate (Low-Glycemic)...I can understand the trouble finding acceptable foods at restraunts.

One misconception is that low fat equals low protein....wrong! I eat very little meat but I use alot of protein powders (made with whey, egg, and milk proteins...all are virtually fat free, carb free) to supplement my meals.

It does if you follow the USDA Guidelines, which call for 30% Fat/60% Carbs/10% Protein...which you obviously aren't doing.

My carbs consist of only the low-glycemic variety....chickpeas, beans of all sorts, boiled barley, boiled whole rye, oatmeal, boiled whole oats, and green vegetables of all kinds. NO refined carbs whatsoever.

That is a step in the right direction. Studies have shown that eating only Low GI Foods is an effective diet...But, as you said earlier, it is hard to find restraunts serving Low-GI foods.

Many of you who said you failed on low-fat diets thought you were eating good carbs and you were not....bread, rice, potatoes, all have high glycemic ratings, most more than sugar. The ones that don't have a high glycemic LOAD, which is just as important.

The problem here is that the AHA, USDA, and most Dieticians/Nutritionists don't preach Low-GI. They preach LF/HC with lots of Grain, Fruits, and Starchy Vegetables. Those following their suggestions will be eating lots of Hi-Glycemic Carbs.

Also, here's the news....25% of calories from fat is not low fat! When carbs are present, you're body will not burn this fat, it will become fat on your body! 10-15% is low fat....just enough to allow you the essentials you need to function.

30% is the level set by the AHA/USDA/et al. It is the level we've all been told to eat below for optimum health. As I stated, my intake was 5-25%. It could be anywhere in that range. Some days, I would eat 5% Fat, other days I'd eat 25%.

Another problem I have with the low-carb/high fat approach is the satiety factor. The logic says that the high fat food will make you full so you eat less. I have not found this to be true. If I'm famished after walking six miles with an 80 lb. backpack I have a huge appetite. After eating my meat veggies and cheese, I'll have some nuts 'cause I'm still hungry....more than likely, the whole can! On my regular diet that allows for high fiber starchy carbohydrates, I can eat till I feel like I'm going to explode even though I have consumed half the calories of the high fat diet.

When I exercise heavily, I find that I'm famished. That is a side-effect of exercise. You need some carbs after a heavy workout, but not too many. I prefer to eat these (LC Beans and LC Fruits) first, then eat meat and vegetables.

I can't close without references one comment that was made to my original post....3% bodyfat is unhealthy and you have an eating disorder. In competetive bodybuilding, 3-5% is necessary to place, to even belong on the same stage! Ideally, you stay under 7% year round. I have gone whole summers at about 5% with no effort...I just overdid it when I decided to count calories based on someones recommendation.

3% is the essential body fat for a man. The essential body fat is that around the organs, that protects them. If you go below 3%, you will lose some of the protective fat around your organs.

People who say that low body fat is unhealthy say so because they look like crap and they want to feel better about themselves!

Even when I was rail thin, I was above 3% Body Fat. I felt fine about my body fat until I went past 16%.

Also, I know what I gained on the Low-Carb diet was fat 'cause I can see it....when your bodyfat is below 5%, you can not only see your six-pack but your whole abdomen looks like a road map of veins and striated muscle....I still have a six pack but it looks puffier and the legs look fatter and less defined.

That there is the reason I never wanted to have a BF% that low. A 2 inch waist, veins bursting out of the arms, and muscles the size of a small car may look good to some people. But, to me it just doesn't look right. A 32-36" waist, ABs that show, and visible muscles is all I want.

[AngieT]

Gee, I read a post written by you dated July 11, 2003. You indicated that you switched to low carb diet and gained 9.5 pounds. Your face looked healthy, but your body was still lean. Which is it? On one post you indicated that you gained some weight but your body did not appear fatter. However, on this post, you indicated that you gained 9 pounds of fat. I'm confused. Did you change your mind?

[Ladylaw]

I think you have entirely missed the point that the carb level each of us needs to consume is different based upon lifestyle while each of us is following a low carb approach. At 5'l" with a desk job often consuming 80 hrs per week I CANNOT consume the same carb level of my 6'3" husband who is walking constantly on his job. We both eat low carb. You are right on point about glycemic load. Dr. Atkins goes into great detail about that. When I deviated from the nutritional approach that I was taught in high school (oops my age is showing) to follow the low fat edicts of the late 60's to present, the pounds began to creep on while I remained extremely active physically.

[atiaran]

I think that it is a personal choice as to which way of eating you believe works for you. We are all different and for some low fat does work better than low carb - case in point, my DH. He tried low carb for a while and the higher fat content seems to cause him to gain. I on the other hand cannot eat low fat - I did it all through college and ended up 40 pounds heavier. (Exercised about 3x/week)
So he does low fat, I do low carb and we are happy that way without one trying to convince the other of who has a more correct way of dieting.
Walken, you will have to decide for yourself what you believe is best for you, and obviously put up with the good and the bad of that lifestyle.

[pegva]

O.k., you can all get ready to flame me for what I'm about to say.

Nope, no flame from me... it's not worth the effort!

[fviegas]

Dear walken1,
I think that what you are experiencing is perfectly normal, most
probably the 9lbs are INDEED FAT!
Just think about it. 3% is the limit of life sustainability from your
body's point of view. It is not your ideal weight. It has been stressed
on this forum and on several diets, not only on atkins, that the body
in normal conditions will stabilize at an "ideal" weight to which optimum
health AND survivability is attained.
By following a low fat diet and strenuous exercise, you put your body
on the limit.From its point of view ( the caveman view) you are running
for your life and getting very little nourishment, maybe you are going
through a famine( where high-fat animals are scarse).
So, your body is fat-famished, it need more fat in order to increase chances of reasonable survivability,so what does it do when you give
it fat ? It stores it, and will continue to store it until it has the security
of survival.Maybe thats 5% or 10%, who knows ?
So, in short, LC is not for bodybuilders, it can help them in the initial
stages or after neglect, but to fine tune a body to 3% it needs very
little fat to accomplish that.
Hope this makes sense to you, but after I thought about it for a while
it made sense to me.

BTW you look great! keep it up! No chance you'll need more than 3%
to survive the urban jungle ;-)

[fviegas]

BTW,
Have you tried the Zone plan ? It allows for more low-glicemic
carbohydrates and restricts fat to 30%. If you follow it with
the "most desirable" protein,carbs and fats, you can do it on a
lower percentage than 30%, while increasing either lg carbs or
protein.
If you look at it, maybe the low-fat plan you had before was
very Zone-like, and works wonders for you.
just my 2cents worth.

[tasche]

Heres what I dont understand is why you a competitive bodybuilder is trying to compare an eating plan that works for us "fatties" to how it works for you someone who is working out 3-4 hrs a day. You DO need more carbs than us to be sucessful while your training hard. It jsut makes sense. But to slam us and critise us for doing something that works for us it just ain't cool.

I used to have a roomate who used a be a sucessful female bodybuilder. But she unlike you insisted on doing it the natural way no whey protein no supplement no scary diets

Besides how can you reasonably expect when your at 3% to go any lower? How many punds of fat to you have on your body 6-7? I ahve 95 hergo this works for me.

All bodies are not equal. Be tolerant of us and our effort as we are of yours.

Good luck with you future comptitions

[Angel66668]

Blah blah blah

[luddybell]

lol angel my thoughts exactly

[The Luke]

I wonder just how long "walken1" is going to live!

I feel bad for people who thik the only thing that looks good are veins bursting from their flesh and huge freaky muscles. I personally find it disgusting, I can't stand to see it. I think if we look to any of the cultures that are "pre-Western" like New Zealand and Austrailia aboriginals we see normal body fat, in the range of 8 to 12 percent, depanding on that persons genetic makeup. Funny how those cultures generally consider the "fatties" to be that smartest, best featured, wealthiest leaders of their tribes. The skinny ones, now matter how muscled are considered "puny".

In my mind, since there are virtaully no foods in all of nature that are low fat, low carb AND nutritious, (nothing comes in powder form in a can either!) providing a full amount of protiens, vitamins and minerals, this type of diet is nowhere near ideal or healthy for our bodies.

Regardless of how important you think bulging muscle or a roadmap of veins are.

Good Luck to you, Walken1. I hope you find what you are looking for!

I feel great. I look fine. My blood has far better cholesterol than I have ever had. Life is good!

Luke Fisher

[digwig]

Walken1,

I have to say that you're not an average, run of the mill "healthy person," you're an elite athlete and as such, you have to manipulate your diet to tremendous extremes in order to attain a certain result. It's not really fair for you to claim that a low-carbohydrate diet doesn't work for average, height-weight proportionate people based on your experience, because you aren't average. You're an athlete with special needs.

A low-carbohydrate diet normalizes blood-pressure, blood-sugar, cholesterol and body fat for most people. For over-fat people, it causes a loss of fat, for people with depleted fat stores it can cause a gain. Your fat gain is not due to you becoming less healthy, but is due to your body correcting your extremely low body-fat. You became healthier by following a low-carbohydrate diet, but I can understand that optimum health is not your ultimate goal here. (This is not meant to be an insult, just saying that 3% body fat is not something that happens naturally without manipulation of diet and exercise and doesn't allow you any protection should you fall ill and become unable to eat for an extended period. However, it is obviously a necessary level for competitive body-building.)

I have to echo what fviegas said and suggest The Zone for you. With your need for glycogen, it would allow you to fuel up before a training session and is a lower-fat, lower calorie version of low-carbing. You may also find the CKD, with its once a week replenishment of glycogen stores, to be another good option.

Good luck to you,
Dig

[Linda Love]

Walken1, your post is contradictory at best. First you stated

"On a low carb diet, there's lots of things you can have. On my regular diet (not low-carb) my meals are very filling, but Spartan..."

Which is it? Filling or Spartan--one means you're satisfied the other means you're deprived. First you condemn the lc WOE and then you try it, but don't follow the eating guidelines, and when it doesn't work to suit your tastes, you're back to condeming it. You must be a Pisces or Gemini. Make up your mind...at least in here.

[Dstar96920]

LOL!!! Linda - I LOVE your posts!
Walen1 - I am not even going to comment on the silly twinkie, fattie thing. I am going to rise above it. I did really like my cookies though. Surprise, surprise, low-fat cookies can "help" make you fat. I tried a low-fat diet (under 10 grams a day), and was miserable and didn't lose a pound. For my lifestyle (moderate exercise, desk job) low carb works for me. Good Luck to you!

[CindySue48]

I also tried strict low-fat prior to beginning LC.

I did loose weight, but I was hungry constantly. After a few weeks I couldn't take it any longer and started cheating. During this time I was following the BFL plan, which is high protein and carbs, low fat.

Initially, when I switched to LC, I was still doing the weight and cardio I started with BFL, but since then I'v reinjured my neck and I'm not able to do most of the exercises.

On LF all my lipids went up....except the "good" cholesterol, that went down. On LC things have started to normalize. My trigylcerides were the most dramatic. I'm waiting now for my latest numbers, will post them when I get them.

A few points:
Walken, you are NOT a typical healthy adult, you are an athlete and so your needs are going to be higher.

Walken, you state initially you lost muscle, but when you gained those 9# it was all fat??? If you'd been exercising the same you should have been building muscle, not fat.

Most of us dont' want to look like body builders or models....we want to look and feel healthy. "Healthy" is NOT being hungry, it's not being obsessed with food.

I have a strong family history of diabetes, my doc is suprised I'm not diabetic also, and I think the only reason I'm not is because of the LC plan.

Just my 2 cents!

[black57]

Many so-called healthy athletic people took steroids too because they didn't have the discipline to eat healthy foods and exercise! Wazzup with that?!

[JudyMH]

Of course I'm not going to tell you what to eat, but you are totally misinformed about most of us on this board. Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, but for myself I was on a Dr McDougall/ Dean Ornish diet. I always heard if you cut the fat and the animal products you were supposed to be so healthy. Not in my case, I developed a severe reaction to grains of any kind and gained 50 pounds. I also had extreme mood swings like I was on Prednisone, which I wouldn't take if my life depended on it. My DH found me in the garage crying over a spilled bag of potting soil for crying out loud. I was hungry all the time. So you are welcome to your own opinion, but please don't generalize the kind of people that are on the Atkins plan. I am 100% better now that I gave up the LF/HC plan. If you would read some of the posts on this and other websites you would see for yourself that we are mostly ordinary people struggling to find a healthy balance. I cannot argue that it is or isn't the right plan for you, but for most of us it suits our lifestyle. Anyway that's my 2 cents worth for whatever it is not worth. Merry Christmas, and whatever you decide I wish you well, Judy

[PaulaB]

O.k., you can all get ready to flame me for what I'm about to say. I'm a 39 y.o., healthy, athletic male who chose the low carb approach to diet after reading how healthy they were....not to lose weight. In fact, at the time I was preparing for a bodybuilding contest. I was following my usual very low fat diet and I just over-did it....my bodyfat was at 3% but I lost to much muscle. I started low-carbing and followed all the rules. I knew I was bound to gain weight because up was the only place to go in the state I was in. However, it snuck up on me and I had gained 10 lbs, most probably fat, in 9 weeks! I just didn't get it! Then it hit me.....most of the people on these diets are some real fatties....they weren't eating a healthy, low fat diet before they started. Low fat diets have been blamed for obesity and flamed to death! I believe that most people who go on a low-carb diet ate burgers, fried, cherry pies, twinkies, and oreos by the box before they started.....so any diet, even Atkins, will make them lose weight. It's real simple....before they stuffed their faces with fat and sugar. Atkins takes away the sugar and there you go.....no miracles here! I'm going back to my old healthy diet where I will be lean and actually have the energy for my workouts. I believe most could profit from a low-fat diet.....low-carbers just don't have the discipline to give up sugar and fat!....end of story.

Firstly it really must be difficult for you to talk to people as you seem to be talking through your backside. Secondly I have never eaten twinkies I don't think they are available over here (UK) I followed the low fat way for years and gave up on it. Started to low carb and have lost weight.

[ozziesgirl]

I love how ignorant some people can be. But what can we expect from some brain dead idiot jock who decided there was nothing else he could do with his life than become a bodybuilder....do you like stereotypes? I doubt it and neither do we. I have tried a health low fat diet and no doubt for some, it works. But if you are always hungry, you have a different problem than some. Yes low fat...HIGH CARB diets are the blame for obesity. You are NOT the norm since you spend half your life in a gym...anyone can look like you if they did that and took steroids. Anyways I loved your post because it was funny and showed just how much of your brain you actually use....good day

[idontno]

why dont you write a book, mr know it all.

[Galadriell]

The starter of this thread left this forum 6 months ago....

[ozziesgirl]

haha yeah but everyone loves a bit of conflict.

I don't actually look at dates but more of what new topic pops up in each forum

[aldini10]

How did you measure your body fat? What is your lower body workout? How would you describe your aerobic fitness?
I agree with alot of what has been said

- all calories are not created equal; Eating 3500 extra calories of refined sugar is different then 3500 calories that are low on the glycemic scale

- You will lose fat when you burn 3500 calories more then you consumed

- Protein is essential to build muscle; more muscle acclerates your metabolism and strengthens bones as well

- Endurance Aerobics, such as triatholon or Marathon training, requires a majority carb diet b/c exercise is over 1 hour and the HR is b/t 70-90% of MHR (fat can't be used as a fuel in this case); there are 280 million people in the US; the number that run sub 4 hr Marathons consistently would fit comfortably into the seating capacity at Wrigley Field and are thus the (very small) minority who can consume carbs

- Whether you have glycogen stores or not you will burn fat if your HR is b/t 50-70% of your MHR

- the goal should be the lowest possible BFP; 2-6% is essential fat for men however some can get down to 4%.

My $.02

[NotSoFast]

I don't think 3-5% bodyfat is healthy........sure, be that way if you want to be a professional body builder but on an otherwise healthy adult...YUK!!!! The high protein/low carb approach is not going to work for people that really do not have much weight to lose.....so then you have to decide if you chose this new WOL to lose weight and eat healthier.....or just to eat healthier. I personally believe that for "Mr. Muscles"...a low fat, high protein, mod carb diet would be better.....and he probably had no right doing a low carb/high protein. If his is truly a bodybuilder, he would of known that already....because they are so into nutrition. I think he is just trying to "makes waves". I like my man with a little bit of meat on him, especially when I cuddle. I don't want to be cuddling with "stick man"....

[teresamay]

I have to say in my situation, I was thin for a long time most of my life - I worked out 4x a week at the gym, followed all the rules for low fat, high carb dieting, and you know what? I was miserable. I was constantly hungry, but scared to death to put anything extra in my mouth for fear of gaining weight - which I did very easily on the low fat and high carb diet. My life revolved around food. After having my duaghter, I gained about 80 pounds because, as a now single mom, my lifestyle changed drastically. I was unalbe to cart a baby to the gym, didn't know anyone in the city and basically stayed home and ate myself silly.

Now, with low carbing with atkins- whcih believe me, terrified me to start due to the horror stories in the news..I feel better than I have in years, I have tons of energy and no "tired peaks' during the day!! I am not craving food or sweets all day long, I am eating much healthier meals - and honestly, not being able to get low carb meals in restaurants isn't such a bad thing - because a "favorite" meal in a controlled environment (in other words - no seconds) is a treat I allow myself when I reach different goals. I have learned to cook nutrisiouly at home. As well, I have figured out how to put excersize back into my routine, and can honeslty say this way of life is for me.

I know someday soon - after I have more control over my own eating patterns that my favorite pasta WILL cross my lips again ;), but I will be in control - not the food. This way of life has taught me that you don't have to go through life hungry and miserable all the time.

Just my two cents...

[bfritz_pa]

All I know 100% is that when I'm on the LC I'm not HUNGRY. Thus I eat less of everything including FAT. I believe the SCIENCE of LC explains why. BLOOD SUGAR LEVELS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some people like me just have out of whack systems and LC works.

Read "The Secret to Low Carb Success"

[adkpam]

Like teresamay, I tried it their way. And it worked, as long as you can keep up with the exercise needed.
As soon as I got sick and couldn't keep up my schedule, that same way of eating really put on the pounds.
So I'm not a healthy person. I'm a MUTANT. I have to eat in a way that works for my body.
And I have lot of company.

[pd Rydia]

You know, this is a board about people losing weight. Obviously, most of our posters aren't going to fit the traditional view of "healthy." But for those who stick to the program, we WILL eventually become healthy individuals. And guess what? The intelligent ones among us will stay on the diet. That means there will be "healthy folks" on a low carb diet!

Not that there AREN'T *already* "healthy folks"--on this board and elsewhere--who follow a low carb diet.

I'll never understand the people who do a low fat/high carb diet...when it WORKS for them!...voluntarily switching diets! Then acting all surprised when the dramatic switch--to the polar opposite of their previous diet, no less--makes them ill? Then making generalizations about huge groups of people based on an individual experience, in the face of hundreds of success stories?

Pff.

[Rosie Real]

:lol: :lol:

I'm sorry, but this is funny. At 4% bf, you're as unhealthy as I am!

Oh, and FYI, I gained weight at 1100 cals. on weight watchers, and maintained on by the book Slimfast.
I am however losing weight on 2000 cals a day Atkins. I don't have diabetes, or any other health problems.
I also don't exercise. Guess it's some miracle that's enabled this lazy pie-eating chick to lose. :)

[Darrelll]

I see the original poster is gone, but my 2 cents is that each person's chemistry is different.

I would never feel full on a low fat, high carb diet. Carbs just never made me feel full compared to eating a steak or other high protein foods.

I've eaten nearly a whole pound of dried pasta (cooked of course) at dinner and still didn't feel full. Cooked weight with sauce is probably close to two pounds of food!

Yes, I've been a glutton and had wild swings in my weight, but when I seriously diet, pretty much all the plans will work for me. That said, the Low Carb diet is the most fun. Previous to this diet, I used a diet that was similar but was called the drinking man's diet. I lost about 30lbs and got smashed about twice a week and had a blast.

Atkins doesn't encourage drinking, but I am a scotch drinker so it's great to be able to have a few drinks occasionally without going off diet. For those who don't like drinking hard liquor straight, I found the LC marguerita mix with tequila to be surprisingly delicious!

As far as his comment about 6 miles with an 80lb backpack, altitude gain is a big factor. On a 11 day backpack trip we were routinely backpacking 15-20 miles per day and 5000 ft gain with 30-40lbs packs.

Doing that, no need to worry about LC, LF or dieting as you cannot possibly eat as much food as the calories you are burning is around 5000+ calories per day. Every one in my group was losing about 2 pounds per day and eating as much as we possibly could. In the 11 days 150+ (2 layover days) miles I dropped about 20 pounds when I wasn't trying to lose weight.

Er, got OT but my main comment is people are different and to categorize us all in one is wrong.

[kyrie]

My point was, if you are lean and healthy, don't sabotage yourself with a low carb plan.

Well, obviously. If you don't need to lose weight, don't enter a weight loss plan, period!

If you look at what people eat on the Atkins lifetime maintenance, you'll see a very balanced diet. Lots of veggies, a bit of meat, plenty of "good" fats (olive oil, avocado, etc.), berries, and a little whole-grain food.

Nobody needs to eat white bread and refined sugar, no matter how healthy they are! A managed carb plan would probably work very well to help people who are healthy stay that way, to help manage insulin levels.

[page40]

actually, i was on weight watchers before i found atkins... i did very well on it and lost 50 pounds, but after months of it i found that i was starving and could not imagine eating another veggie... i took a month to decide wether to do atkins, i read the book twice and made my decision. i went and had my blood work done, my triglycerides where 350 after doing ww for 6 months that made my decision easy... so i started atkins and 3 months later my tryglycerides where down to 73 . i have more energy than i ever have and i feel a great sense of well being daily.. i'll never change the way i eat now, losing weight or not, it's a healthy way to eat... all natural foods, how can you question that? so flame on who cares =)

[BlitzedAng]

ozziesgirl. Oh man I can't stop laughin.. That was so damn funny.

[LilaCotton]

losing weight or not, it's a healthy way to eat... all natural foods, how can you question that?

That's how I feel, and what kept me going through three months of no weight-loss.

[blue4lemon]

Actually before Atkins I was on a so-called healthy diet. Mueslix for breakfast, yogurt for snacks, for lunch- a salad. For dinner, maybe once a week, I hit up Wendy's.

[rosered857]

When I was your age, everything worked. Low fat, high fat, no fat, high carbs, no carbs. In my 30's and 40's I was in top condition. I weight trained in a men's gym when It was not in fashion to do so. I learned to box in the late 90's and loved it. The problem is I cannot eat sugar, even some no calorie sweetners don't help. And I must keep my carbs very low. Now I am in my mid 50's, still strong as ever, but it's a battle to keep off the extra 15-20 pounds. After I retired in 2000, I became a full time homemaker, remodeling our house, home schooling my teenage son and I still have an 11 year old at home. I am a major landscaper and I work very hard. I walk miles a day and I use a threadmill. I have to stay on an extremely low carb diet, with plenty of water and my supplements and in the past two weeks I have lost over 10 pounds. I have 20 more to go. Two days ago, I tested a new low carb soup but it had a very small amount of sugar in it and I gained almost 2 pounds overnight! It's unbelievable. I am not diabetic and I am quite healthly according to my latest examine. It's just the darn sugar and everything white and not white that's starch. It does my body no good! So enjoy being able to do what you do. It may change radically as you age. Oh, I'm a woman and I have 4 boys and 2 grandchildren. Rock On.

[rosered857]

When you compare a female on a low carb diet and a female on a low fat diet, the difference in their faces, is unbelievable. My next door neighbor has always been on a low fat diet. She is just in her 40's and I am almost 55. She looks like a skelton in the face and my face eventhough older, looks healthier. Sorry but I noticed the extreme difference when Suzanne Sommers was on a show a few years ago and they were comparing her with a famous woman athlete on a low fat diet. The difference in their faces was obvious.