Beta-cryptoxanthin, lutein, knees

[Brian Sand]

http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/car98/car98.html

gives databases of carotenes.

Why does it give dried spearmint with beta-cryptoxanthine of
650 ug/100g, but fresh at 0?

Processing does seem to increase the amount in several foods.
But fresh sweet red pepper is high raw at 2205, but they seem
to weaken me a bit. Any reason?

From Pubmed:

Serum carotenoids and radiographic knee osteoarthritis: the
Johnston County Osteoarthritis Project.

De Roos AJ, Arab L, Renner JB, Craft N, Luta G,
Helmick CG, Hochberg MC, Jordan JM.

Public Health Nutr. 2001 Oct;4(5):935-42. National
Cancer Institute, Bethesda, MD, USA.

OBJECTIVE: Antioxidant intake has been associated
with less progression of radiographic knee
osteoarthritis (OA), but studies of carotenoid
biomarkers and OA have not been done. We examined
associations between serum concentrations of nine
naturally occurring carotenoids and radiographic
knee OA. DESIGN: The study design was matched
case-control. Sera were analysed by high-performance
liquid chromatography for nine carotenoids: lutein,
zeaxanthin, alpha- and beta-cryptoxanthin, trans-
and cis-lycopene, alpha-carotene, and trans- and
cis-beta-carotene. Conditional logistic regression
was used to estimate the association between
tertiles of each carotenoid and radiographic knee
OA, independent of body mass index, education, serum
cholesterol, and the other carotenoids. SETTING:
Johnston County, North Carolina, United States of
America. SUBJECTS: Two-hundred cases with
radiographic knee OA (Kellgren-Lawrence grades > or
= 2) and 200 controls (Kellgren-Lawrence grade = 0)
were randomly selected from the Johnston County
Osteoarthritis Project, and were matched on age,
gender and race. RESULTS: Participants with serum
levels of lutein or beta-cryptoxanthin in the
highest tertile were approximately 70% less likely
to have knee OA than controls (odds ratio (OR) [95%
confidence interval (CI)]
= .28 [0.11, 0.73] and 0.36 [0.14, 0.95],
= respectively).
Those in the highest tertile of
trans-beta-carotene (OR =
6.40 [1.86, 22.1]) and zeaxanthin (OR = 3.06 [1.19,
6.41]) were more likely to have knee OA.
CONCLUSIONS: While certain carotenoids may
protect against knee OA, others may increase
the odds of knee OA. Further study of
carotenoids and knee OA are warranted before
clinical recommendations about these substances
and knee OA can be made.

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[Alf Christ]

On 10 Jul 2003 08:41:52 -0500, Brian Sandle
<bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:

>Why does it give dried spearmint with beta-cryptoxanthine of
>650 ug/100g, but fresh at 0?

There are two reasons.
1. Drying removes water and then you need much more plant
material to analyse 100 g matter, thus concentration are
increased, not because more is synthesized, but there are
much less water around.

2. In many plants, drying mean stress to the plant who do
whatever to keep water turgor at 100%. When water vaporize
due to drying, the plant, if still alive, start synthesize
molecules with osmotic capabilities that keep up water
turgor (the cells withdraw water from outside, humidity in
surrounding air, extracellular water etc.) Many of these
compounds have interesting virtues, like being volatile,
scenting molecules etc. When slowly drying culinary herbs
at cool temperatures, enzymes are activated to produce a
long array of such compounds which we later use to give
taste to foods. Drying fast kills the enzymes and in
addition, those few molecules already formed because also
sun irradiation is stressing and thus stimulate in some
degree such compounds to be made, will evaporate from the
drying plant because heat makes them volatile, and thus,
you end up with dry grass
:-)
beta-cryptoxanthine is most probably such a compound that is
formed only at stress when drying.

[Quentin Gr]

This post not CC'd by email On 10 Jul 2003 08:41:52 -0500,
Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:

>http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/car98/car98.html
>gives databases of carotenes.

G'day G'day Brian,

Lutein and zeaxanthin often occur together in green
vegetables. In capsicums (bell peppers) one can see high
lutein (yellow) and high zeaxanthin (orange) selections.

One of the problems with tables is that they give no
information beyond what is listed. While it is probably
obvious to you it is worth mentioning that the absence of
information should not be interpreted as absence of a
particular carotenoid. For most people this wouldn't be a
problem but in your instance it might be. You see you are not
only wanting some carotenoids but are also wishing to avoid
some others. A non-listing for zeaxanthin, for instance,
probably means the research hasn't been done.

The best source I know of for beta-cryptoxanthin is deep red
tamarillo. Since tamarillo is a minor crop by world standards
it doesn't attract the research dollars, so there is at least
one missing item before tamarind. There may be other minor
crops grown locally that you could explore or other posters
may know of some.

FWIIW long term you might find you need some zeaxanthin. After
all the central regions of the eye are very specific in
needing zeaxanthin to avoid age related macular degeneration.
Beta carotene simply isn't found there.

Here are a few take it or leave seeds for further thought.

In one bit of research I read recently the researchers found
lutein absorption five times better than betacarotene. One
crude measure of lutein intake for population studies was
green vegetable intake. It could be that on balance you are
better off to eat green vegetables that you enjoy and work for
you in other ways and hope all the unknown factors work in
your favour.

Best wishes,

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the
blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

[Alf Christ]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:30:14 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

> Lutein and zeaxanthin often occur together in green
> vegetables. In capsicums (bell peppers) one can see high
> lutein (yellow) and high zeaxanthin (orange) selections.
>
>One of the problems with tables is that they give no
>information beyond what is listed. While it is probably
>obvious to you it is worth mentioning that the absence of
>information should not be interpreted as absence of a
>particular carotenoid. For most people

The problem is that there are big differences btw. named
varieties of any vegetables. Like carrots. Juwarot is
extremely high in carotenoids, while other named varieties are
much lower, and white carrots (the original variety, wild one)
are even lacking them completely. When doing analyses, it is
not possible to account for such variations. Also altitude and
latitude are important determinators. And composition of soil,
of course, and how much rain there are normally.

[Brian Sand]

Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> This post not CC'd by email On 10 Jul 2003 08:41:52 -0500,
> Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:

>>http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/car98/car98.html
>>gives databases of carotenes.
[interesting info]
> FWIIW long term you might find you need some zeaxanthin.
> After all the central regions of the eye are very specific
> in needing zeaxanthin to avoid age related macular
> degeneration.

Is it then that the zeaxanthin keeps the problem
calcium/cholesterol deposits breaking up, but also breaks up
knee cartilage? Need to look for some other regulatory system?

Beta carotene simply isn't
> found there.

> Here are a few take it or leave seeds for further thought.

> In one bit of research I read recently the researchers found
> lutein absorption five times better than betacarotene.

Interesting that it is trans-beta-carotene, the type in
synthetic supplements that is the problem.

One crude measure of
> lutein intake for population studies was green vegetable
> intake. It could be that on balance you are better off
> to eat green vegetables that you enjoy and work for you
> in other ways and hope all the unknown factors work in
> your favour.

Following on from what Alf said about drying stress, doesn't
it produce glutathione, too?

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[William A.]

> From Pubmed:
>
> Serum carotenoids and radiographic knee osteoarthritis:
> the Johnston County Osteoarthritis Project.
>
> De Roos AJ, Arab L, Renner JB, Craft N, Luta G,
> Helmick CG, Hochberg MC, Jordan JM.
>
> Public Health Nutr. 2001 Oct;4(5):935-42. National
> Cancer Institute, Bethesda, MD, USA.
>
> OBJECTIVE: Antioxidant intake has been associated
> with less progression of radiographic knee
> osteoarthritis (OA), but studies of carotenoid
> biomarkers and OA have not been done. We examined
> associations between serum concentrations of nine
> naturally occurring carotenoids and radiographic
> knee OA. DESIGN: The study design was matched
> case-control. Sera were analysed by
> high-performance liquid chromatography for nine
> carotenoids: lutein, zeaxanthin, alpha- and
> beta-cryptoxanthin, trans- and cis-lycopene,
> alpha-carotene, and trans- and cis-beta-carotene.
> Conditional logistic regression was used to
> estimate the association between tertiles of each
> carotenoid and radiographic knee OA, independent
> of body mass index, education, serum cholesterol,
> and the other carotenoids. SETTING: Johnston
> County, North Carolina, United States of America.
> SUBJECTS: Two-hundred cases with radiographic knee
> OA (Kellgren-Lawrence grades > or = 2) and 200
> controls (Kellgren-Lawrence grade = 0) were
> randomly selected from the Johnston County
> Osteoarthritis Project, and were matched on age,
> gender and race. RESULTS: Participants with serum
> levels of lutein or beta-cryptoxanthin in the
> highest tertile were approximately 70% less likely
> to have knee OA than controls (odds ratio (OR)
> [95% confidence interval (CI)]
> = .28 [0.11, 0.73] and 0.36 [0.14, 0.95],
> = respectively).
> Those in the highest tertile of
> trans-beta-carotene (OR =
> 6.40 [1.86, 22.1]) and zeaxanthin (OR = 3.06
> [1.19,
> 7.85]) were more likely to have knee OA.
> CONCLUSIONS: While certain carotenoids may
> protect against knee OA, others may increase
> the odds of knee OA. Further study of
> carotenoids and knee OA are warranted before
> clinical recommendations about these
> substances and knee OA can be made.
>

Since lutein is found primarily in greens and greens are a
primary source for vitamin K perhaps it maybe suspected that
the high lutein status group is also the high vitamin K group
also? While some greens contain fair amounts of zeaxanthin,
corn products are rather rich in zeaxanthin, so perhaps the
zeaxanthin is a marker of high corn product consumption. The
corn product would be displacing more nutrient dense foods??

The higher beta-cryptoxanthin maybe a marker of a higher
social standing hence easier occupations. In other words not
carpet layers and ship yard workers rather business persons,
lawyers, and bureaucrats:-) Beta-cryptoxanthin is found in
sweet peppers, papayas, passion fruit, citrus fruits,
persimmons, mole sauce, peaches, cilantro, and collards. More
up scale foods that down scale foods.....????

The USDA does have a small table of foods containing
zeaxanthin. However the other larger table of carotenoids of
U.S. foods of 1998 combines lutein and zeaxanthin together.
Not much good for your purposes.

It may also be the OA sufferers tend to ingest more synthetic
beta-carotene as result of their seeking to minimize their
disease through nutritional means. Thus it maybe a self
imposed marker and not a cause of OA.

All questions..........William A. Noyes

[Moosh:]]

On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 19:23:35 -0700, "William A. Noyes"
<no.address@ctc.net> wrote:

>Since lutein is found primarily in greens and greens are a
>primary source for vitamin K perhaps it maybe suspected that
>the high lutein status group is also the high vitamin K group
>also? While some greens contain fair amounts of zeaxanthin,
>corn products are rather rich in zeaxanthin, so perhaps the
>zeaxanthin is a marker of high corn product consumption. The
>corn product would be displacing more nutrient dense foods??

Which nutrients did you have in mind?

>The higher beta-cryptoxanthin maybe a marker of a higher
>social standing hence easier occupations. In other words not
>carpet layers and ship yard workers rather business persons,
>lawyers, and bureaucrats:-) Beta-cryptoxanthin is found in
>sweet peppers, papayas, passion fruit, citrus fruits,
>persimmons, mole sauce, peaches, cilantro, and collards. More
>up scale foods that down scale foods.....????

Not in many parts of the world.

[Brian Sand]

In sci.med.nutrition William A. Noyes
<no.address@ctc.net> wrote:
>>
>> From Pubmed:
. Further study of
>> carotenoids and knee OA are warranted before
>> clinical recommendations about these substances
>> and knee OA can be made.
>>

[...]
> It may also be the OA sufferers tend to ingest more
> synthetic beta-carotene as result of their seeking to
> minimize their disease through nutritional means. Thus it
> maybe a self imposed marker and not a cause of OA.

Yes, interesting. In this case of beta-carotene
supplementation there is also the study which showed it
casued more rather than less lung cancer. So the evidence is
adding a bit.

What expts do we need for the other carotenes?

Any anecdotal reports? I think I have wondered about any
connection of carrot eating to spine problems. Got better when
I started fish oil.

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[Quentin Gr]

This post not CC'd by email On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 00:52:06
+0200, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Fri, 11 Jul 2003 08:30:14 +1200, Quentin Grady
><quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
>
>> Lutein and zeaxanthin often occur together in green
>> vegetables. In capsicums (bell peppers) one can see high
>> lutein (yellow) and high zeaxanthin (orange) selections.
>>
>>One of the problems with tables is that they give no
>>information beyond what is listed. While it is probably
>>obvious to you it is worth mentioning that the absence of
>>information should not be interpreted as absence of a
>>particular carotenoid. For most people
>
>The problem is that there are big differences btw. named
>varieties of any vegetables. Like carrots. Juwarot is
>extremely high in carotenoids, while other named varieties
>are much lower, and white carrots (the original variety, wild
>one) are even lacking them completely.

G'day G'day Alf,

I read that the wild carrots were purple. The first
domesticated carrots were white then yellow. Orange is quite
recent. Some Japanese varieties appear to contain lycopene
making them darker red.

It makes one wonder if the wild varieties with their purple
colour were poisonous as some people have assumed or whether
that was just a prejudice of the times. We have purple fleshed
potatoes available locally. They appear to have high
antioxidant levels.

>When doing analyses, it is not possible to account for such
>variations.

>Also altitude and latitude are important determinators. And
>composition of soil, of course, and how much rain there are
>normally.

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the
blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

[Quentin Gr]

This post not CC'd by email On 10 Jul 2003 18:54:23 -0500,
Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:

>> In one bit of research I read recently the researchers
>> found lutein absorption five times better than
>> betacarotene.
>
>Interesting that it is trans-beta-carotene, the type in
>synthetic supplements that is the problem.

G'day G'day Brian,

Cis beta carotene appears to be an antioxidant in its own
right. The It is possible to convert trans-beta-carotene to
Vit A but not the cis form.

Best wishes,

--
Quentin Grady ^ ^ / New Zealand, >#,#< [ / \ /\ "... and the
blind dog was leading."

http://homepages.paradise.net.nz/quentin

[Alf Christ]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 17:36:15 +1200, Quentin Grady
<quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:

>It makes one wonder if the wild varieties with their purple
>colour were poisonous as some people have assumed or whether
>that was just a prejudice of the times. We have purple
>fleshed potatoes available locally. They appear to have high
>antioxidant levels.

Cannot remember them being poisonous in reality, but
prejudices may asffect everything. Potatoes was considered
toxic by plain men in Norway the first centuries after
introduction to the country. The priests did a good job
convincing people they were healthy (socalled 'potetprester').
When speaking on the sundays, these always told about the
benefits of growing the potatoe and used them offensively in
their preaches :-) In many districts of Norway, the farm of
the church (prestegården) was the first one in the local
community to grow new vegetables and other agriculture
staples, like potato.

Today, things has changed totally :-(

[Brian Sand]

Quentin Grady <quentin@paradise.net.nz> wrote:
> This post not CC'd by email On 10 Jul 2003 18:54:23 -0500,
> Brian Sandle <bsandle@shell.caverock.net.nz> wrote:

>>> In one bit of research I read recently the researchers
>>> found lutein absorption five times better than
>>> betacarotene.
>>
>>Interesting that it is trans-beta-carotene, the type in
>>synthetic supplements that is the problem.

> G'day G'day Brian,

> Cis beta carotene appears to be an antioxidant in its own
> right. The It is possible to convert trans-beta-carotene to
> Vit A but not the cis form.

Linkname: Beta-Carotene URL:
http://www.thorne.com/altmedrev/.fulltext/5/6/530.html

Beta-Carotene: The Controversy Continues
[...] The debate over the differences
between synthetic and food-source (or
naturally-derived commercial from the algae
Dunaliella species) b-carotene centers
around the role of the cis-isomers, which
are absent from synthetic all-trans
b-carotene. The importance of the 9-cis
isomer has been linked to the fact that it
is a direct precursor in the intestinal
enterocyte to 9-cis retinoic acid.46
Retinoic acid acts as a hormone in signaling
processes where it binds to nuclear
receptors and controls normal reproduction
and maintenance of epithelial tissue.47
Retinoids are also involved in preventing
carcinogenesis, inhibiting squamous
metaplasia, acting as a chemopreventive
agent in epithelial carcinogenesis, and as a
differentiating agent in acute promyelocytic
leukemia.47 Specifically, 9-cis retinoic
acid binds to human nuclear retinoic acid
receptor (RAR) and retinoid X receptor
(RXR-a) and plays a significant role in the
expression of normal epithelial and squamous
tissue growth. The 9-cis retinoic acid
isomer has been studied as an antitumor
agent in combination studies with either
tamoxifen48 or raloxifene^49 in experimental
mammary carcinogenesis; both studies found
significant inhibition of mammary tumor
growth when compared to the anti-estrogens
alone. Significant inhibitory effects on
head and neck squamous cell carcinoma cell
lines have also been found with 9-cis
retinoic acid.50

9-cis retinoic acid is formed only from 9-cis b-carotene,
while all-trans b-carotene has been shown to be transformed
into only all-trans retinoic acid.51 The 9-cis isomer of
b-carotene appears to be isomerized in the intestinal
mucosa to the all-trans isomer52 and theoretically,
all-trans retinoic acid can be metabolized into 9-cis
retinoic acid. Although this has been demonstrated both in
vivo and in vitro, this pathway is not well understood and
has not been demonstrated in the human gut.46 [...]

plus all sorts of interesting stuff, fats levels needed &c.

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