Nick
Tue, Jul-08-03, 06:13
You are absolutely right, John the Man. Whatever you do,
never eat saturated fatty acids. Only eat the most
unsaturated fatty acids you can. Eat them in abundance. Eat
them as often as possible. Eat them even when you don't feel
like eating anything at all. Hopefully, by following these
simple rules, you will do everyone who reads this newsgroup a
big favor very soon.
John the Man posted:
">Subject: Re Here is one for Nick.
>From: "nick" spam@spam.net Date: 7/7/03 4:05 AM
>!!!First Boot!!!
nick, is a lack of paragraphs associated with mental illness?
You were supposed to respond to this study. You responded to
the post. There is a difference you know?
Therefore, I assume that the study that I posted does in
fact show saturated fatty acids dangerous can be dangerous
to your health?
>These are the kind of studies I would like to see posted
>here. Previously, I posted that I challenge those who think
>saturated fatty acids dangerous
to
>post studies that supposedly demonstrate this claim, as I
>don't wish to do damage to myself if there is indeed a real
>risk of high saturated fatty
acid
>consumption. However, it is hard to argue about the "chronic
>disease" incidence among peoples who consumed coconut oil and
>palm kernel oil as dietary stapes for generations. This study
>is interesting and worthy of comment. It recognizes that many
>of the previous claims about SFAs have been based on
>statistical/epidemiological studies that are notoriously
>problematic. It also does not discuss physiological mechanism
>(that is, what the body is actually doing when you eat SFAs,
>though of course nobody eats just SFAs but other food as
>well), but rather views SFAs as a marker (or association, or
>link). There is little doubt among those who treat diabetes
>that there are two mechanisms at work, namely, damage to the
>pancreatic beta cells (which secrete insulin), or a situation
>in which insulin becomes desensitized to glucose (most seem
>to beleive that this is due to eating too many calories each
>day, or eating too much "high
glycemic"
>calories). I have never heard of a hypothesis that claims
>that saturated fatty acids either do damage to pancreatic
>beta cells (though the evidence is overwhelming that
>oxidative stress can do these cells damage, and saturated
>fatty acids are stable, unlike unsaturated fatty acids), or
>desensitize insulin - such claims would be laughed at by
>anyone who has a basic understanding of the mechanisms
>involved. Another point worthy of note is that they studied
>plasma levels of certain fatty acids, and this could mean
>anything. I would be interested if they had taken tissue
>biopsies to see which fatty acids were incorporated into
>their cells, as opposed to what was floating around in the
>blood, which has very limited carrying capacity. Note that an
>omega 6 PUFA in CE was also correlated
with
>diabetes (as was a MUFA). Does that mean you aren't going to
>eat any fatty acids now? The body produces a lot of saturated
>fatty acids (especially palmitic) on its own, and it's not
>clear if we are dealing with a cause or an effect. In other
>words, as the body is damaged or becomes
dysfunctional,
>it produces more of the SFAs because they are stable and may
>act to stabilize the condition until the body can deal with
>the problem. Remember that carbohydrates are used to make
>fatty acids, and palmitic is more
likely
>to be made than any other fatty acid. Houssay, a Nobel
>winner, did an experiment, which demonstrated that PUFAs were
>much more apt to cause diabetes than saturated fats or pure
>glucose (lard was used, which is high in arachidonic acid -
>the most dangerous PUFA in the "typical American
diet"
>context). I suggest you read "Cholesterol, coconuts,
>and diet on
Polynesian
>atolls," by I.A. Prior (1981) American Journal of Clinical
>Nutrition 34
(8):
>1552-61. There, biopsies were taken. The people had high
>levels of SFAs, high cholesterol levels, and no "chronic
>disease" (compared to Americans). This study does show what
>the problem in "mainstream medicine" is, as they say they
>seek a "biomarker." Why not just understand the "disease?"
>Lastly, they say that there is an "indirect" "suggestion"
>that SFAs in the diet are to blame. How do they know - seems
>to me that excess carbs may be to blame here? If they had
>done a food questionaire properly, along with using the blood
>samples as they had, this would be much more useful. What
I
>found is that they will categorize, for example, lard
>or pork, as
"saturated
>fat," when most lard or pork in the USA is way too high in
>arachidonic acid (do to feeding them soy and corn), so the
>"epidemiological" data dooms the study to failure before the
>first patient makes the first check on a questionaire (I
>included a study below that makes this point). I truly
hope
>this explanation encourages you to reflect about these
>points. I is unlikely to all fit together immediately, but
>just give your mind time to digest it - don't just dismiss
>things you don't like. Cognitive dissonance is usually
>required for intellectual growth, in my experience.
>P.S. I was not the one to first make such points. I have
> not been involved in the many studies I've cited
> here. I cite studies from major medical/scientific
> journals. Unless you keep reading and learning, it
> may not make sense to you, that is, the role of free
> radical damage and
cellular
>signalling dysfunction brought about by more than a tiny
>daily consumption of PUFAs (and some MUFAs, such as erucic
>acid) are what starts most
"chronic
>diseases." Now let me ask you a question: why have you
>assumed saturated fatty acids are "bad?" Why not keep an open
>mind and "hit the books," as I did? I admit that I too had a
>closed mind a few years back, and that's why I'm taking time
>here to explain what I've discovered to those who wish to
>avoid that meat grinder of "chronic disease" and "mainstream
>medicine."
But
>continue to post studies or abstracts - unless it is
>ludicrous, I'll
respond
>if I can.
>
>"J Nutr Health Aging. 2003;7(2):84-9. Effect of ham protein
>substitution on oxidative stress in older adults.
>
>Mayoral P, Martinez-Salgado CS, Santiago JM,
>Rodriguez-Hernandez MV, Garc a-Gomez ML, Morales A, L
>pez-Novoa JM, Mac as-N ez JF.
>
>Correspondence: Jose M L pez-Novoa, Departamento de Fisiolog
>a y Farmacolog a, Edificio Departamental, Campus Miguel de
>Unamuno, 37007 Salamanca,
Spain.
>Telephone: +34 923294472. Telefax: +34 923294669. E mail:
>jmlnovoa@usual.es
>
>Mediterranean diet has been related to a low risk of
>coronary hearth disease. In the present study, we have
>evaluated the effect of substituting 120 g of meat by 120 g
>of acorn-fed Iberian ham (one of the meat components of the
>Mediterranean diet) on body weight, blood pressure (MAP),
>plasma lipids and oxidant-antioxidant equilibrium in 13
>males and 8 females with
an
>average age of 71. Study was performed in three periods:
>basal diet evaluations (BD1), ham diet for 6 weeks (HD), and
>basal diet again for 6 weeks (BD2). MAP significantly
>diminished from 96 mmHg in BD1 to 89 mmHg after HD. After
>BD2, MAP remained in the same value. Plasma total antioxidant
>substances increased from 0.791 mmol/L in BD1, to 1.525 in
>HD, and to 1.213 in BD2. Glutathione reductase significantly
>increased from
9.5
>U/L in BD1 to 57 in HD and decreased to 49.2 in BD2.
> Glutathione peroxidase rose from 33 U/gHb in BD1 to 72 in
> HD and decreased to 52 in BD2.
Superoxide
>dismutase increased from 401 U/gHb in BD1 to 723 in HD and
>decreased to 433 in BD2. Plasma thiobarbituric acid reacting
>substances (TBARS) fall from
>1.65 mmol/l in BD1 to 1.38 in HD and to 1.47 in BD2. TBARS in
> erythrocyte membranes also diminished but only in BD2. It
> can be concluded that including acorn-fed Iberian ham in
> the diet increased the antioxidant substances and decrease
> lipid peroxidation, with its subsequent beneficial effects
> on the atherogenic risk factors.
>
>PMID: 12679827 [PubMed - in process]"
>
>
>Mike posted:
>
>"Prediction: Nick will ignore this and post a new (long)
>spiel on oxidation. MikeV
>
>"John the Man" <jhgohde@wmconnect.comSnarf> wrote in message
>news:20030706080541.13584.00000144@mb-m27.wmconnect.com...
>> According to new research from the University of Minnesota.
>> Doctors have
>long
>> suspected a link between diabetes and saturated fat or
>> animal fat, but no actual biological evidence has ever been
>> produced--until now. This study,
>which
>> was published in the American Journal of Clinical
>> Nutrition, concludes
>that as
>> the level of fatty acids increase, the likelihood of
>> developing type 2
>diabetes
>> also increases. In other words, eat too many steaks and
>> burgers and
you're
>more
>> likely to develop type 2 diabetes.
>>
>> Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
>>
>> "Conclusions: The proportional saturated fatty acid
>> composition of plasma
>is
>> positively associated with the development of diabetes. Our
>> findings with
>the
>> use of this biomarker suggest indirectly that the dietary
>> fat profile, particularly that of saturated fat, may
>> contribute to the etiology of diabetes."
>>
>> Lu Wang, Aaron R Folsom, Zhi-Jie Zheng, James S Pankow,
>> and John H
>Eckfeldt
>> Plasma fatty acid composition and incidence of diabetes in
>> middle-aged
>adults:
>> the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) Study
>> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/1/91 Am J Clin
>> Nutr 2003 78: 91-98.
>>
>> Checkmate, ... nick!
>>
>> Hark! My private health newsgroup beckons!
>> --
>> John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a
>> Science!
>>
>> The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of
>> the biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 17
>> webpages, Nutrition
>> (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/) is now with more
>> documentation and sharper terminology than ever before."
never eat saturated fatty acids. Only eat the most
unsaturated fatty acids you can. Eat them in abundance. Eat
them as often as possible. Eat them even when you don't feel
like eating anything at all. Hopefully, by following these
simple rules, you will do everyone who reads this newsgroup a
big favor very soon.
John the Man posted:
">Subject: Re Here is one for Nick.
>From: "nick" spam@spam.net Date: 7/7/03 4:05 AM
>!!!First Boot!!!
nick, is a lack of paragraphs associated with mental illness?
You were supposed to respond to this study. You responded to
the post. There is a difference you know?
Therefore, I assume that the study that I posted does in
fact show saturated fatty acids dangerous can be dangerous
to your health?
>These are the kind of studies I would like to see posted
>here. Previously, I posted that I challenge those who think
>saturated fatty acids dangerous
to
>post studies that supposedly demonstrate this claim, as I
>don't wish to do damage to myself if there is indeed a real
>risk of high saturated fatty
acid
>consumption. However, it is hard to argue about the "chronic
>disease" incidence among peoples who consumed coconut oil and
>palm kernel oil as dietary stapes for generations. This study
>is interesting and worthy of comment. It recognizes that many
>of the previous claims about SFAs have been based on
>statistical/epidemiological studies that are notoriously
>problematic. It also does not discuss physiological mechanism
>(that is, what the body is actually doing when you eat SFAs,
>though of course nobody eats just SFAs but other food as
>well), but rather views SFAs as a marker (or association, or
>link). There is little doubt among those who treat diabetes
>that there are two mechanisms at work, namely, damage to the
>pancreatic beta cells (which secrete insulin), or a situation
>in which insulin becomes desensitized to glucose (most seem
>to beleive that this is due to eating too many calories each
>day, or eating too much "high
glycemic"
>calories). I have never heard of a hypothesis that claims
>that saturated fatty acids either do damage to pancreatic
>beta cells (though the evidence is overwhelming that
>oxidative stress can do these cells damage, and saturated
>fatty acids are stable, unlike unsaturated fatty acids), or
>desensitize insulin - such claims would be laughed at by
>anyone who has a basic understanding of the mechanisms
>involved. Another point worthy of note is that they studied
>plasma levels of certain fatty acids, and this could mean
>anything. I would be interested if they had taken tissue
>biopsies to see which fatty acids were incorporated into
>their cells, as opposed to what was floating around in the
>blood, which has very limited carrying capacity. Note that an
>omega 6 PUFA in CE was also correlated
with
>diabetes (as was a MUFA). Does that mean you aren't going to
>eat any fatty acids now? The body produces a lot of saturated
>fatty acids (especially palmitic) on its own, and it's not
>clear if we are dealing with a cause or an effect. In other
>words, as the body is damaged or becomes
dysfunctional,
>it produces more of the SFAs because they are stable and may
>act to stabilize the condition until the body can deal with
>the problem. Remember that carbohydrates are used to make
>fatty acids, and palmitic is more
likely
>to be made than any other fatty acid. Houssay, a Nobel
>winner, did an experiment, which demonstrated that PUFAs were
>much more apt to cause diabetes than saturated fats or pure
>glucose (lard was used, which is high in arachidonic acid -
>the most dangerous PUFA in the "typical American
diet"
>context). I suggest you read "Cholesterol, coconuts,
>and diet on
Polynesian
>atolls," by I.A. Prior (1981) American Journal of Clinical
>Nutrition 34
(8):
>1552-61. There, biopsies were taken. The people had high
>levels of SFAs, high cholesterol levels, and no "chronic
>disease" (compared to Americans). This study does show what
>the problem in "mainstream medicine" is, as they say they
>seek a "biomarker." Why not just understand the "disease?"
>Lastly, they say that there is an "indirect" "suggestion"
>that SFAs in the diet are to blame. How do they know - seems
>to me that excess carbs may be to blame here? If they had
>done a food questionaire properly, along with using the blood
>samples as they had, this would be much more useful. What
I
>found is that they will categorize, for example, lard
>or pork, as
"saturated
>fat," when most lard or pork in the USA is way too high in
>arachidonic acid (do to feeding them soy and corn), so the
>"epidemiological" data dooms the study to failure before the
>first patient makes the first check on a questionaire (I
>included a study below that makes this point). I truly
hope
>this explanation encourages you to reflect about these
>points. I is unlikely to all fit together immediately, but
>just give your mind time to digest it - don't just dismiss
>things you don't like. Cognitive dissonance is usually
>required for intellectual growth, in my experience.
>P.S. I was not the one to first make such points. I have
> not been involved in the many studies I've cited
> here. I cite studies from major medical/scientific
> journals. Unless you keep reading and learning, it
> may not make sense to you, that is, the role of free
> radical damage and
cellular
>signalling dysfunction brought about by more than a tiny
>daily consumption of PUFAs (and some MUFAs, such as erucic
>acid) are what starts most
"chronic
>diseases." Now let me ask you a question: why have you
>assumed saturated fatty acids are "bad?" Why not keep an open
>mind and "hit the books," as I did? I admit that I too had a
>closed mind a few years back, and that's why I'm taking time
>here to explain what I've discovered to those who wish to
>avoid that meat grinder of "chronic disease" and "mainstream
>medicine."
But
>continue to post studies or abstracts - unless it is
>ludicrous, I'll
respond
>if I can.
>
>"J Nutr Health Aging. 2003;7(2):84-9. Effect of ham protein
>substitution on oxidative stress in older adults.
>
>Mayoral P, Martinez-Salgado CS, Santiago JM,
>Rodriguez-Hernandez MV, Garc a-Gomez ML, Morales A, L
>pez-Novoa JM, Mac as-N ez JF.
>
>Correspondence: Jose M L pez-Novoa, Departamento de Fisiolog
>a y Farmacolog a, Edificio Departamental, Campus Miguel de
>Unamuno, 37007 Salamanca,
Spain.
>Telephone: +34 923294472. Telefax: +34 923294669. E mail:
>jmlnovoa@usual.es
>
>Mediterranean diet has been related to a low risk of
>coronary hearth disease. In the present study, we have
>evaluated the effect of substituting 120 g of meat by 120 g
>of acorn-fed Iberian ham (one of the meat components of the
>Mediterranean diet) on body weight, blood pressure (MAP),
>plasma lipids and oxidant-antioxidant equilibrium in 13
>males and 8 females with
an
>average age of 71. Study was performed in three periods:
>basal diet evaluations (BD1), ham diet for 6 weeks (HD), and
>basal diet again for 6 weeks (BD2). MAP significantly
>diminished from 96 mmHg in BD1 to 89 mmHg after HD. After
>BD2, MAP remained in the same value. Plasma total antioxidant
>substances increased from 0.791 mmol/L in BD1, to 1.525 in
>HD, and to 1.213 in BD2. Glutathione reductase significantly
>increased from
9.5
>U/L in BD1 to 57 in HD and decreased to 49.2 in BD2.
> Glutathione peroxidase rose from 33 U/gHb in BD1 to 72 in
> HD and decreased to 52 in BD2.
Superoxide
>dismutase increased from 401 U/gHb in BD1 to 723 in HD and
>decreased to 433 in BD2. Plasma thiobarbituric acid reacting
>substances (TBARS) fall from
>1.65 mmol/l in BD1 to 1.38 in HD and to 1.47 in BD2. TBARS in
> erythrocyte membranes also diminished but only in BD2. It
> can be concluded that including acorn-fed Iberian ham in
> the diet increased the antioxidant substances and decrease
> lipid peroxidation, with its subsequent beneficial effects
> on the atherogenic risk factors.
>
>PMID: 12679827 [PubMed - in process]"
>
>
>Mike posted:
>
>"Prediction: Nick will ignore this and post a new (long)
>spiel on oxidation. MikeV
>
>"John the Man" <jhgohde@wmconnect.comSnarf> wrote in message
>news:20030706080541.13584.00000144@mb-m27.wmconnect.com...
>> According to new research from the University of Minnesota.
>> Doctors have
>long
>> suspected a link between diabetes and saturated fat or
>> animal fat, but no actual biological evidence has ever been
>> produced--until now. This study,
>which
>> was published in the American Journal of Clinical
>> Nutrition, concludes
>that as
>> the level of fatty acids increase, the likelihood of
>> developing type 2
>diabetes
>> also increases. In other words, eat too many steaks and
>> burgers and
you're
>more
>> likely to develop type 2 diabetes.
>>
>> Ha, ... Hah, Ha!
>>
>> "Conclusions: The proportional saturated fatty acid
>> composition of plasma
>is
>> positively associated with the development of diabetes. Our
>> findings with
>the
>> use of this biomarker suggest indirectly that the dietary
>> fat profile, particularly that of saturated fat, may
>> contribute to the etiology of diabetes."
>>
>> Lu Wang, Aaron R Folsom, Zhi-Jie Zheng, James S Pankow,
>> and John H
>Eckfeldt
>> Plasma fatty acid composition and incidence of diabetes in
>> middle-aged
>adults:
>> the Atherosclerosis Risk in Communities (ARIC) Study
>> http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/abstract/78/1/91 Am J Clin
>> Nutr 2003 78: 91-98.
>>
>> Checkmate, ... nick!
>>
>> Hark! My private health newsgroup beckons!
>> --
>> John Gohde, Achieving good Nutrition is an Art, NOT a
>> Science!
>>
>> The nutrition of eating a healthy diet is the foundation of
>> the biomedical model of natural health. Weighing in at 17
>> webpages, Nutrition
>> (www.Food.NaturalHealthPerspective.com/) is now with more
>> documentation and sharper terminology than ever before."