Rich foods and getting sick

[Ron Ritzma]

[Crossposted to alt.support.diet and sci.med.nutrition]

Exactly what causes the sickness and nausea that often comes
from overeating calorie dense foods such as high fat/carb
combos like cheesecake and chocolate? Certainly it's not from
overfilling the stomach.

My guess that it has something to do with the metabolic
reaction to the "sugar bomb" because ,at least for me, too
many nuts doesn't have the same effect that chocolate
candy does.

--
Ron Ritzman http://www.panix.com/~ritzlart Smart people can
figure out my email address

[Jayjay]

"Ron Ritzman" <ritzlart@paniximretarted.com> wrote in message
news:be4ls4$m4l$1@reader1.panix.com...
> [Crossposted to alt.support.diet and sci.med.nutrition]
>
> Exactly what causes the sickness and nausea that often comes
> from overeating calorie dense foods such as high fat/carb
> combos like cheesecake and chocolate? Certainly it's not
> from overfilling the stomach.
>
> My guess that it has something to do with the metabolic
> reaction to the "sugar bomb" because ,at least for me, too
> many nuts doesn't have the same effect that chocolate
> candy does.
>

For me - I also experience the nausea from overeating at a
restaurant. Example from Friday - went to lunch with friends
to Chilis, indulged in the Grilled Tuna sandwich with a salad
instead of fries. I ate the tuna and the top half of the bun
(hey - I'm a sucker for garlic bread). I was stuffed after
that meal And later in the afternoon I had 2 pieces of bite
sized peppermint paddies. By 6pm the nausea hit. That was
right at the time I should have been preparing dinner.

This happens quite often when I eat out at lunch and eat food
like that bun. it doesn't happen if I eat the lunch of just
the salad and the meat. But it does when I add in the carbs
like bread or fries.

Would love to know the reasoning behind that.

[M00sh]

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 19:51:32 +0000 (UTC), Ron Ritzman
<ritzlart@paniximretarted.com> wrote:

>[Crossposted to alt.support.diet and sci.med.nutrition]
>
>Exactly what causes the sickness and nausea that often comes
>from overeating calorie dense foods such as high fat/carb
>combos like cheesecake and chocolate? Certainly it's not from
>overfilling the stomach.

Overproduction of bile? Or even underproduction? I'm just
guessing coz of the expression "bilious". But it is well known
that Pritikin dieters who splurge on fat get quite nauseous.

>My guess that it has something to do with the metabolic
>reaction to the "sugar bomb" because ,at least for me, too
>many nuts doesn't have the same effect that chocolate
>candy does.

The fat in nuts is very slowly absorbed, unless you chew them
very finely. The fat must be leeched out of the nut tissue
structure. I would bet that a lot of fat from nuts goes
straight through the gut unabsorbed.

[M00sh]

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:11:16 -0400, "jayjay"
<jjf_71@notmail.com> wrote:

>
>"Ron Ritzman" <ritzlart@paniximretarted.com> wrote in message
>news:be4ls4$m4l$1@reader1.panix.com...
>> [Crossposted to alt.support.diet and sci.med.nutrition]
>>
>> Exactly what causes the sickness and nausea that often
>> comes from overeating calorie dense foods such as high
>> fat/carb combos like cheesecake and chocolate? Certainly
>> it's not from overfilling the stomach.
>>
>> My guess that it has something to do with the metabolic
>> reaction to the "sugar bomb" because ,at least for me, too
>> many nuts doesn't have the same effect that chocolate
>> candy does.
>>
>
>For me - I also experience the nausea from overeating at a
>restaurant. Example from Friday - went to lunch with friends
>to Chilis, indulged in the Grilled Tuna sandwich with a salad
>instead of fries. I ate the tuna and the top half of the bun
>(hey - I'm a sucker for garlic bread). I was stuffed after
>that meal And later in the afternoon I had 2 pieces of bite
>sized peppermint paddies. By 6pm the nausea hit. That was
>right at the time I should have been preparing dinner.
>
>This happens quite often when I eat out at lunch and eat food
>like that bun. it doesn't happen if I eat the lunch of just
>the salad and the meat. But it does when I add in the carbs
>like bread or fries.
>
>Would love to know the reasoning behind that.

Probably the fat from the fries (12%) or the fat from the
bread/butter/dressing or food poisoning. Starch or sugar won't
make a normal person nauseous in my experience. Fat is food is
very easily hidden.

[Gym Bob]

Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do not
digest together.

"jayjay" <jjf_71@notmail.com> wrote in message
news:be4n12$18n9d$1@ID-87431.news.dfncis.de...
>
> "Ron Ritzman" <ritzlart@paniximretarted.com> wrote in
> message news:be4ls4$m4l$1@reader1.panix.com...
> > [Crossposted to alt.support.diet and sci.med.nutrition]
> >
> > Exactly what causes the sickness and nausea that often
> > comes from overeating calorie dense foods such as high
> > fat/carb combos like cheesecake and chocolate? Certainly
> > it's not from overfilling the stomach.
> >
> > My guess that it has something to do with the metabolic
> > reaction to the "sugar bomb" because ,at least for me, too
> > many nuts doesn't have the same effect that chocolate
> > candy does.
> >
>
> For me - I also experience the nausea from overeating at a
> restaurant. Example from Friday - went to lunch with friends
> to Chilis, indulged in
the
> Grilled Tuna sandwich with a salad instead of fries. I ate
> the tuna and the top half of the bun (hey - I'm a sucker for
> garlic bread). I was stuffed after that meal And later in
> the afternoon I had 2 pieces of
bite
> sized peppermint paddies. By 6pm the nausea hit. That was
> right at the time I should have been preparing dinner.
>
> This happens quite often when I eat out at lunch and eat
> food like that
bun.
> it doesn't happen if I eat the lunch of just the salad and
> the meat. But
it
> does when I add in the carbs like bread or fries.
>
> Would love to know the reasoning behind that.

[Elvis Pars]

"Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
> not digest together.

Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
something?

[M00sh]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:46:57 GMT, "Gym Bob"
<NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote:

>Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do not
>digest together.

Digest in what? Cats will have a problem.

>"jayjay" <jjf_71@notmail.com> wrote in message
>news:be4n12$18n9d$1@ID-87431.news.dfncis.de...
>>
>> "Ron Ritzman" <ritzlart@paniximretarted.com> wrote in
>> message news:be4ls4$m4l$1@reader1.panix.com...
>> > [Crossposted to alt.support.diet and sci.med.nutrition]
>> >
>> > Exactly what causes the sickness and nausea that often
>> > comes from overeating calorie dense foods such as high
>> > fat/carb combos like cheesecake and chocolate? Certainly
>> > it's not from overfilling the stomach.
>> >
>> > My guess that it has something to do with the metabolic
>> > reaction to the "sugar bomb" because ,at least for me,
>> > too many nuts doesn't have the same effect that chocolate
>> > candy does.
>> >
>>
>> For me - I also experience the nausea from overeating at a
>> restaurant. Example from Friday - went to lunch with
>> friends to Chilis, indulged in
>the
>> Grilled Tuna sandwich with a salad instead of fries. I ate
>> the tuna and the top half of the bun (hey - I'm a sucker
>> for garlic bread). I was stuffed after that meal And later
>> in the afternoon I had 2 pieces of
>bite
>> sized peppermint paddies. By 6pm the nausea hit. That was
>> right at the time I should have been preparing dinner.
>>
>> This happens quite often when I eat out at lunch and eat
>> food like that
>bun.
>> it doesn't happen if I eat the lunch of just the salad and
>> the meat. But
>it
>> does when I add in the carbs like bread or fries.
>>
>> Would love to know the reasoning behind that.
>>
>

[M00sh]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:34:58 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
<elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:

>"Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
>news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
>> Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
>> not digest together.
>
>Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
>something?
>

Nah, JimBo is a total LaLa.

He hasn't discovered beans yet. Or grains or nuts. Foods
which combine carbs and protein together and are fine foods,
easily digested.

I remember this "roast beef sandwich is poison" rubbish early
last century in Seventh Day Adventist nonsense. It's like so
many outdated religious food proscriptions. Probably had a
reason centuries ago, but just hollow dogma today.

[Carol Fril]

In article
<CHrNa.68637$2ay.36984@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
Elvis Parsley <elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:

> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
> > not digest together.
>
> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
> something?
>
Thought that was milk and meat. maybe the rabbi was wrong!

[Suzee]

Elvis Parsley wrote:
>
> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
> news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
> > not digest together.
>
> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
> something?

Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
combining is not new; it states that one should eat veggies
and protein together or veggies and starch, but not starch and
protein. Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The reason is
that starches `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins.
It's been mentioned on smn in the last coupl weeks, and you
could do a search for it.

sue

[M00sh]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:57:17 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <CHrNa.68637$2ay.36984@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.-
>rogers.com>, Elvis Parsley <elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
>> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
>> > not digest together.
>>
>> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
>> something?
>>
>Thought that was milk and meat. maybe the rabbi was wrong!

Nutritionall, yes, spiritually, who knows.

[Steve Harr]

"M00SH" <noll@noll.noll> wrote in message
news:qhicgvcf0mous2rtbi4vv0csn31jrg1iqp@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:34:58 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
> <elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:
>
> >"Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
>news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> >> Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat
do not digest
> >> together.
> >
> >Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
something?
> >
>
> Nah, JimBo is a total LaLa.
>
> He hasn't discovered beans yet. Or grains or nuts. Foods
which combine
> carbs and protein together and are fine foods, easily
digested.
>
> I remember this "roast beef sandwich is poison" rubbish
early last
> century in Seventh Day Adventist nonsense. It's like so
many outdated
> religious food proscriptions. Probably had a reason
centuries ago, but
> just hollow dogma today.

But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with all those
proscriptions against meat and dairy combining, that they get
with their mother's milk. So when they grow up, all this sort
of thing just sounds "right" to them, even if the specifics
change. Most of our modern nonsense on food combining crap is
due to the Diamonds.

Just as much anti-meat stuff is due to McDonald, who is (as
you might guess) an Adventist.

Beware diet gurus peddling stuff that sounds quite a lot like
whatever kind of superstitious rubbish they got from their
mommies, before the age of 6.

SBH

[Katra]

suzee wrote:
>
> Elvis Parsley wrote:
> >
> > "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message news:750-
> > a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> > > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat
> > > do not digest together.
> >
> > Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
> > something?
>
> Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
> combining is not new; it states that one should eat veggies
> and protein together or veggies and starch, but not starch
> and protein. Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The reason
> is that starches `use up' the acids needed to digest
> proteins. It's been mentioned on smn in the last coupl
> weeks, and you could do a search for it.
>
> sue

The best teacher for this particular concept is personal
experience...

My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat sandwiches and
to never combine starch with meat... I have had chronic
digestive problems for many years and this advice has helped
me more than anything ever has! It is SO nice now to be able
to eat a decent meal and not feel crappy later! Veggie stir
fry's with chicken, lean pork, lean beef or fish rawk! Lotsa
fresh ginger, garlic, curry and onions. I've only recently
discovered the delights of curry powder.

Without exception, any time I combine starch and meat now, I
notice that I feel ill after eating. And I never stuff myself
either. My meals nowadays are far smaller than they ever were,
and I feel far better than I ever have, UNLESS I eat something
stupid like a meat sandwich with bread, (lettuce wraps are
fine) or make something like chicken and rice.

No steak with potatoes... <g> No burgers and fries... <sigh>

K.

--
>^,,^< Cats-haven Hobby Farm >^,,^< Katra@centurytel.net
>>^,,^<

Breast Implants are the Stupidest idea ever. If I wanted
to fondle $10,000.oo worth of Silicon, I'd buy a new
computer! --Anon.

Custom handcrafts, Sterling silver beaded jewelry http:-
//cgi3.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewListedItems&us-
erid=katra

[Carol Fril]

In article <be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:

> Most of our modern nonsense on food combining crap is due to
> the Diamonds.
>
The last time I mentioned this I took some heat for
criticizing someone's WOE. i think the Diamonds are nutty,
created a cult and pocketed the profits from a ridiculous diet
plan. They are as nutty as fruit cakes and shouldn't be
combined with each other in the nutritional sense.

[Carol Fril]

In article <be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
> But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with all
> those proscriptions against meat and dairy combining, that
> they get with their mother's milk.

Actually there is method in seeming Orthodox madness. If you
ever washed a lamb chop down with a cold glass of milk you
would instantly feel the grease congealing on your tongue and
in your gut. I believe dairy can be consumed before meat but
not with it.

You won't find many Lubavitchers and Hasidim taking
Pepto Bismal.

[Carol Fril]

In article <3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net>, Katra
<Katra@centurytel.net> wrote:

> My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat sandwiches
> and to never combine starch with meat...

No parental disrespect intended, but I think it's sugar and
fat combined that create the queasy feeling, not steak and
potatoes. Cheesecake sends me reeling if I insist on finishing
the entire piece which I always do.

[Mh]

"Katra" <Katra@centurytel.net> wrote in message
news:3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net...
>
>
> suzee wrote:
> >
> > Elvis Parsley wrote:
> > >
> > > "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message news:7-
> > > 50a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> > > > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat
> > > > do not digest together.
> > >
> > > Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
> > > something?
> >
> > Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
> > combining is not new; it states that one should eat
> > veggies and protein together or veggies and starch, but
> > not starch and protein. Fruits ought to be eaten
> > separately. The reason is that starches `use up' the acids
> > needed to digest proteins. It's been mentioned on smn in
> > the last coupl weeks, and you could do a search for it.
> >
> > sue
>
> The best teacher for this particular concept is personal
> experience...
>
> My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat sandwiches
> and to never combine starch with meat... I have had chronic
> digestive problems for many years and this advice has helped
> me more than anything ever has! It is SO nice now to be able
> to eat a decent meal and not feel crappy later! Veggie stir
> fry's with chicken, lean pork, lean beef or fish rawk! Lotsa
> fresh ginger, garlic, curry and onions. I've only recently
> discovered the delights of curry powder.
>
> Without exception, any time I combine starch and meat now,
> I notice that I feel ill after eating. And I never stuff
> myself either. My meals nowadays are far smaller than they
> ever were, and I feel far better than I ever have, UNLESS
> I eat something stupid like a meat sandwich with bread,
> (lettuce wraps are fine) or make something like chicken
> and rice.
>
> No steak with potatoes... <g> No burgers and fries... <sigh>
>
> K.
>
Personal experience is one of the worst forms of junk science.
Please research through JAMA (Journal of the AMA), Scientific
America, etc, to see if there is any validity to what you are
saying. It has already proven to be incorrect, btw.

Junk science sucks!

Martha

[Mark D.]

"MH" <bastzine@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:vNGNa.39975$3o3.2727058@
>
> Personal experience is one of the worst forms of junk
> science. Please research through JAMA (Journal of the AMA),
> Scientific America, etc, to
see
> if there is any validity to what you are saying. It has
> already proven to
be
> incorrect, btw.
>
> Junk science sucks!

Indeed. Anyone who thinks they can do their own investigation
into the effects of certain food combinations ought *at the
very least* to be subjecting themselves to *double blind*
tests! Wouldn't be too hard to do, either...

Mark D.

[Steve Harr]

"Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:050720031456339187%cma@sympatico.ca...
> In article <be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
Harris
> <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
> > But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with all
> > those proscriptions against meat and dairy combining,
that
> > they get with their mother's milk.
>
> Actually there is method in seeming Orthodox madness. If
you ever
> washed a lamb chop down with a cold glass of milk you
would instantly
> feel the grease congealing on your tongue and in your gut.

Hate to tell you this, but it's all in your mind. Right along
with nausea after eating ham or lobster.

[Carol Fril]

In article <be7f8s$2sr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:

> "Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:050720031456339187%cma@sympatico.ca...
> > In article <be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
> Harris
> > <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
> > > But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with all
> > > those proscriptions against meat and dairy combining,
> that
> > > they get with their mother's milk.
> >
> > Actually there is method in seeming Orthodox madness. If
> you ever
> > washed a lamb chop down with a cold glass of milk you
> would instantly
> > feel the grease congealing on your tongue and in your gut.
>
>
> Hate to tell you this, but it's all in your mind. Right
> along with nausea after eating ham or lobster.
>
It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it. No
problem with Smithfield's or Red Lobster but spareibs usually
mean putting in an extra supply of Cottonelle. I've never
been kosher.

[Eric Bohlm]

M00SH <noll@noll.noll> wrote in
news:oricgv8j1g8eh653lnd72j5rephc0r7oog@4ax.com:

> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:46:57 GMT, "Gym Bob"
> <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote:
>
>>Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
>>not digest together.
>
> Digest in what? Cats will have a problem.

The standard Natural Hygeine dogma is that when you eat a
protein and a starch together (this is using "protein" and
"starch" to mean specific foods, rather than components of
foods; inasmuch as very few staple foods consist of single
macronutrients, things are already getting a little shaky),
your stomach has to produce alkaline digestive juices to
digest the starch and acidic juices to digest the protein. As
a result, the digestive juices neutralize each other, meaning
that neither food gets digested and therefore you gain weight
(a "beer gut" is actually the result of a colon distended with
years-old waste, not fat deposits).

I could have told you what was wrong with this "theory" when I
was 11 years old, based entirely on infomation available in
books in my junior-high library. Anybody who reads the
digestion section of one of those "facts about your body"
websites aimed at kids, or the _Grossology_ books aimed at
kids, could tell you what's wrong with the "theory." Yet _Fit
for Life_ is the best-selling diet book of all time. Then
again, the best-selling self- help book of any kind of all
time was written by L. Ron Hubbard.

I think a lot of people trying to lose weight have a great
need for ritual and spirituality in the process. Americans are
sort of funny that way; we mix up the material and the
spiritual in a bizarre fashion. We want spiritual solutions to
economic and scientific problems, and we want economic or
technological answers to existential questions.

P.S. Do you *really* have to follow up to every single post
Gohde makes? It's as if the two of you are in a battle
to see who can get the last word
in.

[M00sh]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0700, suzee
<suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:

>Elvis Parsley wrote:
>>
>> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
>> news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
>> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
>> > not digest together.
>>
>> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
>> something?
>
>Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
>combining is not new; it states that one should eat veggies
>and protein together or veggies and starch, but not starch
>and protein.

Rubbish. Grains have protein and starch, as do pulses
(legumes) and many vegetables. Starches start to change to
sugars in the mouth. Starch is just "polyglucose"

>Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The reason is that
>starches `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins.

How do they do this? Fruits contain acids themselves.

>It's been mentioned on smn in the last coupl weeks, and you
>could do a search for it.

Lots of rubbsih gets mentioned on smn :)

[Elvis Pars]

"suzee" <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote in message
news:3F070D49.FA5EFE36@nidlink.com...
>
> Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
> combining is not new; it states that one should eat veggies
> and protein together or

May not be new, but it isn't right. Should I throw away my
human physiology book, and go "ohmmm" to my mountain?
Seriously, a friend of mine read a book (I believe it was fit
for life or something like that), he believed the exact same
thing as you believe now, I had to hit him in the head with a
hammer. Free the demons! Free the demons!

> veggies and starch, but not starch and protein. Fruits
> ought to be eaten separately. The reason is that starches
> `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins. It's been
> mentioned on smn in the last coupl weeks, and you could do
> a search for it.

First off hydrocholoric acid doesn't digest protein or
polysaccharides (starches), its function is to dissolve food
into particulate matter, and kill bacteria. The enzymes (not
HCl) pepsin (secreted within the stomach) and amylase
(contained within the saliva), cause the partial digestion
of protein and polysaccharides while in the stomach (final
stages of digestion taking place in the intestines). Whether
you eat protein and starches together (or separately) this
is what happens. Food combining is for diet books, fools,
and psychics.

[Mmo0$H]

On 6 Jul 2003 02:01:13 GMT, Eric Bohlman
<ebohlman@earthlink.net> wrote:

>M00SH <noll@noll.noll> wrote in
>news:oricgv8j1g8eh653lnd72j5rephc0r7oog@4ax.com:
>
>> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:46:57 GMT, "Gym Bob"
>> <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat do
>>>not digest together.
>>
>> Digest in what? Cats will have a problem.
>
>The standard Natural Hygeine dogma is that when you eat a
>protein and a starch together (this is using "protein" and
>"starch" to mean specific foods, rather than components of
>foods; inasmuch as very few staple foods consist of single
>macronutrients, things are already getting a little shaky),
>your stomach has to produce alkaline digestive juices to
>digest the starch and acidic juices to digest the protein. As
>a result, the digestive juices neutralize each other, meaning
>that neither food gets digested and therefore you gain weight
>(a "beer gut" is actually the result of a colon distended
>with years-old waste, not fat deposits).

This last is urban myth, sorry.

The stomach never becomes alkaline. The small intestine
neutralises the acid in the stomach content. Starch starts
converting to glucose in the alkaline saliva of the mouth.

Sorry, Eric, I thought for a moment you had had a mental
breakdown. I thought that was your belief :)

>I could have told you what was wrong with this "theory" when
>I was 11 years old, based entirely on infomation available in
>books in my junior-high library. Anybody who reads the
>digestion section of one of those "facts about your body"
>websites aimed at kids, or the _Grossology_ books aimed at
>kids, could tell you what's wrong with the "theory." Yet _Fit
>for Life_ is the best-selling diet book of all time. Then
>again, the best-selling self- help book of any kind of all
>time was written by L. Ron Hubbard.

Don't that just say it all :)

>I think a lot of people trying to lose weight have a great
>need for ritual and spirituality in the process. Americans
>are sort of funny that way; we mix up the material and the
>spiritual in a bizarre fashion. We want spiritual solutions
>to economic and scientific problems, and we want economic or
>technological answers to existential questions.
>
>P.S. Do you *really* have to follow up to every single post
> Gohde makes? It's as if the two of you are in a battle
> to see who can get the last word
>in.

Sorry, Eric, it's a bad habit of mine. Put it down to cabin
fever, it's cold and wet out here at present. I'm not trying
to get the last word, as he has no continuity to his rantings.
I just amuse myself by putting his stupidity on the permanent
record. I suppose that's already done, so I will desist.

[Suzee]

M00SH wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0700, suzee
> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>
> >Elvis Parsley wrote:
> >>
> >> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message news:75-
> >> 0a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> >> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat
> >> > do not digest together.
> >>
> >> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
> >> something?
> >
> >Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
> >combining is not new; it states that one should eat veggies
> >and protein together or veggies and starch, but not starch
> >and protein.
>
> Rubbish. Grains have protein and starch, as do pulses
> (legumes) and many vegetables. Starches start to change to
> sugars in the mouth. Starch is just "polyglucose"

> >Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The reason is that
> >starches `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins.
>
> How do they do this? Fruits contain acids themselves.

Digestive acids?

sue

[Mo0$H]

On Sat, 5 Jul 2003 10:55:34 -0700, "Steve Harris"
<sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:

>
>"M00SH" <noll@noll.noll> wrote in message
>news:qhicgvcf0mous2rtbi4vv0csn31jrg1iqp@4ax.com...
>> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 03:34:58 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
>> <elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
>>
>>news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
>> >> Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat
>do not digest
>> >> together.
>> >
>> >Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
>something?
>> >
>>
>> Nah, JimBo is a total LaLa.
>>
>> He hasn't discovered beans yet. Or grains or nuts. Foods
>which combine
>> carbs and protein together and are fine foods, easily
>digested.
>>
>> I remember this "roast beef sandwich is poison" rubbish
>early last
>> century in Seventh Day Adventist nonsense. It's like so
>many outdated
>> religious food proscriptions. Probably had a reason
>centuries ago, but
>> just hollow dogma today.
>
>
>
>But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with all
>those proscriptions against meat and dairy combining, that
>they get with their mother's milk. So when they grow up, all
>this sort of thing just sounds "right" to them, even if the
>specifics change.

Like Catholics tucking into a good feed of fish on Fridays. It
was supposed to be a hardship, not a feast :)

>Most of our modern nonsense on food combining crap is due to
>the Diamonds.

Who or what are the Diamonds?

>Just as much anti-meat stuff is due to McDonald, who is (as
>you might guess) an Adventist.

You're joking! :)

>Beware diet gurus peddling stuff that sounds quite a lot like
>whatever kind of superstitious rubbish they got from their
>mommies, before the age of 6.

Good tip.

[Mo0$H]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:49:34 -0500, Katra
<Katra@centurytel.net> wrote:

>
>
>suzee wrote:
>>
>> Elvis Parsley wrote:
>> >
>> > "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message news:75-
>> > 0a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
>> > > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat
>> > > do not digest together.
>> >
>> > Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
>> > something?
>>
>> Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
>> combining is not new; it states that one should eat veggies
>> and protein together or veggies and starch, but not starch
>> and protein. Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The
>> reason is that starches `use up' the acids needed to digest
>> proteins. It's been mentioned on smn in the last coupl
>> weeks, and you could do a search for it.
>>
>> sue
>
>The best teacher for this particular concept is personal
>experience...

Only for the person. So many try to extrapolateto
everyone else.

>My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat sandwiches
>and to never combine starch with meat... I have had chronic
>digestive problems for many years and this advice has helped
>me more than anything ever has! It is SO nice now to be able
>to eat a decent meal and not feel crappy later! Veggie stir
>fry's with chicken, lean pork, lean beef or fish rawk! Lotsa
>fresh ginger, garlic, curry and onions. I've only recently
>discovered the delights of curry powder.
>
>Without exception, any time I combine starch and meat now, I
>notice that I feel ill after eating. And I never stuff myself
>either. My meals nowadays are far smaller than they ever
>were, and I feel far better than I ever have, UNLESS I eat
>something stupid like a meat sandwich with bread, (lettuce
>wraps are fine) or make something like chicken and rice.
>
>No steak with potatoes... <g> No burgers and fries... <sigh>
>
>K.

Funny that billions of human beings thrive on eating carbs and
meat together (Asians eating rice with everything)

I suspect you have a metabolic problem of unknown aetiology :)

[Mmo0$H]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:58:26 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
<elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:

>"suzee" <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote in message
>news:3F070D49.FA5EFE36@nidlink.com...
>>
>> Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
>> combining is not new; it states that one should eat veggies
>> and protein together or
>
>
>May not be new, but it isn't right. Should I throw away my
>human physiology book, and go "ohmmm" to my mountain?
>Seriously, a friend of mine read a book (I believe it was fit
>for life or something like that), he believed the exact same
>thing as you believe now, I had to hit him in the head with a
>hammer. Free the demons! Free the demons!
>
>> veggies and starch, but not starch and protein. Fruits
>> ought to be eaten separately. The reason is that starches
>> `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins. It's been
>> mentioned on smn in the last coupl weeks, and you could do
>> a search for it.
>
>First off hydrocholoric acid doesn't digest protein or
>polysaccharides (starches), its function is to dissolve food
>into particulate matter, and kill bacteria. The enzymes (not
>HCl) pepsin (secreted within the stomach) and amylase
>(contained within the saliva), cause the partial digestion of
>protein and polysaccharides while in the stomach (final
>stages of digestion taking place in the intestines). Whether
>you eat protein and starches together (or separately) this is
>what happens. Food combining is for diet books, fools, and
>psychics.

Well said, Mr King :)

[Eric Bohlm]

"Elvis Parsley" <elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote in news:C7NNa-
.64410$a51.44703@news02.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com:

> First off hydrocholoric acid doesn't digest protein or
> polysaccharides (starches), its function is to dissolve
> food into particulate matter, and kill bacteria. The
> enzymes (not HCl) pepsin (secreted within the stomach) and
> amylase (contained within the saliva), cause the partial
> digestion of protein and polysaccharides while in the
> stomach (final stages of digestion taking place in the
> intestines). Whether you eat

Another function of the HCl is to convert pepsin from the
inactive form (proenzyme) in which it is secreted to its
active, proteolytic form. Why is it secreted in an inactive
form? So it doesn't do its proteolytic work on the cells that
secrete it.

[Suzee]

Carol Frilegh wrote:
>
> In article <3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net>, Katra
> <Katra@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
> > My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat sandwiches
> > and to never combine starch with meat...
>
> No parental disrespect intended, but I think it's sugar and
> fat combined that create the queasy feeling, not steak and
> potatoes. Cheesecake sends me reeling if I insist on
> finishing the entire piece which I always do.

It's an idividual thing, cheesecake doesn't bother me. Though
I'm sure it also depends on how large the piece is... ;)

sue

[Suzee]

MH wrote:
>
> "Katra" <Katra@centurytel.net> wrote in message
> news:3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net...
> >
> >
> > suzee wrote:
> > >
> > > Elvis Parsley wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message news-
> > > > :750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> > > > > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and
> > > > > meat do not digest together.
> > > >
> > > > Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture,
> > > > or something?
> > >
> > > Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches.
> > > Food combining is not new; it states that one should eat
> > > veggies and protein together or veggies and starch, but
> > > not starch and protein. Fruits ought to be eaten
> > > separately. The reason is that starches `use up' the
> > > acids needed to digest proteins. It's been mentioned on
> > > smn in the last coupl weeks, and you could do a search
> > > for it.
> > >
> > > sue
> >
> > The best teacher for this particular concept is personal
> > experience...
> >
> > My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat sandwiches
> > and to never combine starch with meat... I have had
> > chronic digestive problems for many years and this advice
> > has helped me more than anything ever has! It is SO nice
> > now to be able to eat a decent meal and not feel crappy
> > later! Veggie stir fry's with chicken, lean pork, lean
> > beef or fish rawk! Lotsa fresh ginger, garlic, curry and
> > onions. I've only recently discovered the delights of
> > curry powder.
> >
> > Without exception, any time I combine starch and meat now,
> > I notice that I feel ill after eating. And I never stuff
> > myself either. My meals nowadays are far smaller than they
> > ever were, and I feel far better than I ever have, UNLESS
> > I eat something stupid like a meat sandwich with bread,
> > (lettuce wraps are fine) or make something like chicken
> > and rice.
> >
> > No steak with potatoes... <g> No burgers and fries...
> > <sigh>
> >
> > K.
> >
> Personal experience is one of the worst forms of junk
> science. Please research through JAMA (Journal of the
> AMA), Scientific America, etc, to see if there is any
> validity to what you are saying. It has already proven to
> be incorrect, btw.
>
> Junk science sucks!
>
> Martha

And what does the JAMA know about an individual's digestive
system? Each person is *different* and something that bothers
one person doesn't faze another. *That's* the kind of personal
experience that's meaningful.

sue

[Mo0$H]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:56:33 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
>Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
>> But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with all
>> those proscriptions against meat and dairy combining, that
>> they get with their mother's milk.
>
>Actually there is method in seeming Orthodox madness. If you
>ever washed a lamb chop down with a cold glass of milk you
>would instantly feel the grease congealing on your tongue and
>in your gut. I believe dairy can be consumed before meat but
>not with it.

You get the same effect drinking cold water immediately after
your chop. Is this bad? I avoid greasy chops.

>You won't find many Lubavitchers and Hasidim taking
>Pepto Bismal.

Isn't that used after overeating? :)

[Mo0$H]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 16:01:21 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net>, Katra
><Katra@centurytel.net> wrote:
>
>> My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat sandwiches
>> and to never combine starch with meat...
>
>No parental disrespect intended, but I think it's sugar and
>fat combined that create the queasy feeling, not steak and
>potatoes. Cheesecake sends me reeling if I insist on
>finishing the entire piece which I always do.

Perhaps the fat makes you queasy and the sugar makes you eat
too much? :)

Starch starts converting (ptyalin in saliva) to glucose in
the mouth.

[Mmo0$H]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:27:14 -0700, suzee
<suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:

>M00SH wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0700, suzee
>> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>>
>> >Elvis Parsley wrote:
>> >>
>> >> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message news:7-
>> >> 50a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
>> >> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and meat
>> >> > do not digest together.
>> >>
>> >> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture, or
>> >> something?
>> >
>> >Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
>> >combining is not new; it states that one should eat
>> >veggies and protein together or veggies and starch, but
>> >not starch and protein.
>>
>> Rubbish. Grains have protein and starch, as do pulses
>> (legumes) and many vegetables. Starches start to change to
>> sugars in the mouth. Starch is just "polyglucose"
>
>> >Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The reason is that
>> >starches `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins.
>>
>> How do they do this? Fruits contain acids themselves.
>
>Digestive acids?

It's the pH that matters and the hydrogen + ion is the same
world wide :)

How do starches "use up" the acids in the stomach?

[Elvis Pars]

"MMO0$H" <niII@niII.niII> wrote in message
news:52afgvgjpun40p8th6brtjt5bap3l57gtm@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:58:26 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
>
> Well said, Mr King :)

Thanks, I'm a herb you know?

[Carol Fril]

Someone wrote:
>
> Who or what are the Diamonds?

The Diamonds, are Harvey and Marilyn who have written diet
books. ( these Diamonds are not this girl's best friend!) They
preach food combining in "Fit for Life" which IMO is fit for
cult dieting

Amazon editorial reviewer says:

> The Diamonds explain that body functions have a daily cycle:
> noon to 8
> p.m.-- appropriation (eating and digestion); 8 p.m. to 4
> a.m.--assimilation (absorption and use); 4 a.m. to
> noon--elimination (of body wastes and food debris). Fit
> for Life aims to return you to a lifestyle based on your
> natural body cycles. That means 70 percent of your diet
> should be "high-water-content foods"--fruits and
> vegetables--which facilitate all body functions. Consume
> nothing but fruit or fruit juice until noon, then eat
> salad and vegetables with every meal for the rest of the
> day.

--
Diva
********
I confuse "vegan" with "wicken" -and think vegetarians get
burned at the stake.

[Mmo0$H]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:24:13 -0700, suzee
<suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:

>Carol Frilegh wrote:
>>
>> In article <3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net>, Katra
>> <Katra@centurytel.net> wrote:
>>
>> > My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat
>> > sandwiches and to never combine starch with meat...
>>
>> No parental disrespect intended, but I think it's sugar and
>> fat combined that create the queasy feeling, not steak and
>> potatoes. Cheesecake sends me reeling if I insist on
>> finishing the entire piece which I always do.
>
>It's an idividual thing, cheesecake doesn't bother me. Though
>I'm sure it also depends on how large the piece is... ;)

And how much fat it contains. This can vary from none to
"heaps".

[Mmo0$H]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:26:00 -0700, suzee
<suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:

>MH wrote:
>>
>> "Katra" <Katra@centurytel.net> wrote in message
>> news:3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net...
>> >
>> >
>> > suzee wrote:
>> > >
>> > > Elvis Parsley wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message new-
>> > > > s:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com-
>> > > > ...
>> > > > > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and
>> > > > > meat do not digest together.
>> > > >
>> > > > Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture,
>> > > > or something?
>> > >
>> > > Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches.
>> > > Food combining is not new; it states that one should
>> > > eat veggies and protein together or veggies and starch,
>> > > but not starch and protein. Fruits ought to be eaten
>> > > separately. The reason is that starches `use up' the
>> > > acids needed to digest proteins. It's been mentioned on
>> > > smn in the last coupl weeks, and you could do a search
>> > > for it.
>> > >
>> > > sue
>> >
>> > The best teacher for this particular concept is personal
>> > experience...
>> >
>> > My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat
>> > sandwiches and to never combine starch with meat... I
>> > have had chronic digestive problems for many years and
>> > this advice has helped me more than anything ever has! It
>> > is SO nice now to be able to eat a decent meal and not
>> > feel crappy later! Veggie stir fry's with chicken, lean
>> > pork, lean beef or fish rawk! Lotsa fresh ginger, garlic,
>> > curry and onions. I've only recently discovered the
>> > delights of curry powder.
>> >
>> > Without exception, any time I combine starch and meat
>> > now, I notice that I feel ill after eating. And I never
>> > stuff myself either. My meals nowadays are far smaller
>> > than they ever were, and I feel far better than I ever
>> > have, UNLESS I eat something stupid like a meat sandwich
>> > with bread, (lettuce wraps are fine) or make something
>> > like chicken and rice.
>> >
>> > No steak with potatoes... <g> No burgers and fries...
>> > <sigh>
>> >
>> > K.
>> >
>> Personal experience is one of the worst forms of junk
>> science. Please research through JAMA (Journal of the
>> AMA), Scientific America, etc, to see if there is any
>> validity to what you are saying. It has already proven to
>> be incorrect, btw.
>>
>> Junk science sucks!
>>
>> Martha
>
>And what does the JAMA know about an individual's
>digestive system?

Just about everything, actually

>Each person is *different* and something that bothers one
>person doesn't faze another. *That's* the kind of personal
>experience that's meaningful.

But the differences are overwhelmingly outweighed by the
similarities. Much of the differences are those of perception,
or belief.

[Mmo0$H]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 04:45:25 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
<elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:

>"MMO0$H" <niII@niII.niII> wrote in message
>news:52afgvgjpun40p8th6brtjt5bap3l57gtm@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:58:26 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
>>
>> Well said, Mr King :)
>
>Thanks, I'm a herb you know?

Herb King. As euphonious a monniker ever I've heard.

[Carol Fril]

In article
<FPNNa.76975$2ay.54199@news01.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com>,
Elvis Parsley <elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:

> "MMO0$H" <niII@niII.niII> wrote in message
> news:52afgvgjpun40p8th6brtjt5bap3l57gtm@4ax.com...
> > On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:58:26 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
> >
> > Well said, Mr King :)
>
> Thanks, I'm a herb you know?
>
How's Peaches?

[Mo0$H]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 18:07:59 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <be7f8s$2sr$1@slb5.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
>Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
>
>> "Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:050720031456339187%cma@sympatico.ca...
>> > In article <be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
>> Harris
>> > <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
>> > > But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with
>> > > all those proscriptions against meat and dairy
>> > > combining,
>> that
>> > > they get with their mother's milk.
>> >
>> > Actually there is method in seeming Orthodox madness. If
>> you ever
>> > washed a lamb chop down with a cold glass of milk you
>> would instantly
>> > feel the grease congealing on your tongue and in
>> > your gut.
>>
>>
>> Hate to tell you this, but it's all in your mind. Right
>> along with nausea after eating ham or lobster.
>>
>It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it. No
>problem with Smithfield's or Red Lobster but spareibs usually
>mean putting in an extra supply of Cottonelle. I've never
>been kosher.

And chocolate and cold water, and chops and cold water....

[Carol Fril]

In article <us8fgvcd44fenl7fq8sl2p8bj5el3ied3p@4ax.com>,
MMO0$H <niII@niII.niII> wrote:

> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:24:13 -0700, suzee
> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>
> >Carol Frilegh wrote:
> >>
> >> In article <3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net>, Katra
> >> <Katra@centurytel.net> wrote:
> >>
> >> > My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat
> >> > sandwiches and to never combine starch with meat...
> >>
> >> No parental disrespect intended, but I think it's sugar
> >> and fat combined that create the queasy feeling, not
> >> steak and potatoes. Cheesecake sends me reeling if I
> >> insist on finishing the entire piece which I always do.
> >
> >It's an idividual thing, cheesecake doesn't bother me.
> >Though I'm sure it also depends on how large the piece
> >is... ;)
>
> And how much fat it contains. This can vary from none to
> "heaps".

Anything less than 'heaps" is gruel. It's Carole's Cheesecake
made by Carole Ogus in Toronto who turned her gandmother's
recipe into a very successful business. My favorite flavor?
Heartburn! it was my main maintenance treat until it started
forest fires in the tummy.Contains eggs, sugar and cream.

--
Diva
**********
"Low-fat message at the heart of Western food guides ignores
the latest research"-Dr. Walter Willett

[taurusrc]

On Fri, 4 Jul 2003 16:11:16 -0400, "jayjay"
<jjf_71@notmail.com> wrote:

>For me - I also experience the nausea from overeating at a
>restaurant. Example from Friday - went to lunch with friends
>to Chilis, indulged in the Grilled Tuna sandwich with a salad
>instead of fries. I ate the tuna and the top half of the bun
>(hey - I'm a sucker for garlic bread). I was stuffed after
>that meal And later in the afternoon I had 2 pieces of bite
>sized peppermint paddies. By 6pm the nausea hit. That was
>right at the time I should have been preparing dinner.
>
>This happens quite often when I eat out at lunch and eat food
>like that bun. it doesn't happen if I eat the lunch of just
>the salad and the meat. But it does when I add in the carbs
>like bread or fries.
>
>Would love to know the reasoning behind that.
>
Maybe you have a gluten problem. Check out celiac disease.

Ora

[Suzee]

Elvis Parsley wrote:
>
> "suzee" <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote in message
> news:3F070D49.FA5EFE36@nidlink.com...
> >
> > Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches. Food
> > combining is not new; it states that one should eat
> > veggies and protein together or
>
> May not be new, but it isn't right. Should I throw away my
> human physiology book, and go "ohmmm" to my mountain?
> Seriously, a friend of mine read a book (I believe it was
> fit for life or something like that), he believed the exact
> same thing as you believe now, I had to hit him in the head
> with a hammer. Free the demons! Free the demons!

I didn't say I believed it, just trying to explain it.

sue

[Steve Harr]

"Steve Harris" <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote in
message news:be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net...
> Just as much anti-meat stuff is due to McDonald, who is
(as
> you might guess) an Adventist.

Wups, of course that's McDougal, not McDonald.

[taurusrc]

On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 14:56:33 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <be73em$jnj$1@slb9.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
>Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
>> But orthodox Jews like it, because it resonates with all
>> those proscriptions against meat and dairy combining, that
>> they get with their mother's milk.
>
>Actually there is method in seeming Orthodox madness. If you
>ever washed a lamb chop down with a cold glass of milk you
>would instantly feel the grease congealing on your tongue and
>in your gut. I believe dairy can be consumed before meat but
>not with it.

Cold anything would probably do that. Lamb contains a certain
amount of solid fat which congeals when cold.

>You won't find many Lubavitchers and Hasidim taking
>Pepto Bismal.

[Suzee]

MMO0$H wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:27:14 -0700, suzee
> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>
> >M00SH wrote:
> >>
> >> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0700, suzee
> >> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Elvis Parsley wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message news-
> >> >> :750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com...
> >> >> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and
> >> >> > meat do not digest together.
> >> >>
> >> >> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture,
> >> >> or something?
> >> >
> >> >Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches.
> >> >Food combining is not new; it states that one should eat
> >> >veggies and protein together or veggies and starch, but
> >> >not starch and protein.
> >>
> >> Rubbish. Grains have protein and starch, as do pulses
> >> (legumes) and many vegetables. Starches start to change
> >> to sugars in the mouth. Starch is just "polyglucose"
> >
> >> >Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The reason is that
> >> >starches `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins.
> >>
> >> How do they do this? Fruits contain acids themselves.
> >
> >Digestive acids?
>
> It's the pH that matters and the hydrogen + ion is the same
> world wide :)
>
> How do starches "use up" the acids in the stomach?

Use up may have been the wrong term to use. See the
information in another post in this thread regarding the
theory of why starchy foods should not be mixed with meats and
dairy protein.

sue

[Suzee]

MMO0$H wrote:
>
> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:26:00 -0700, suzee
> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>
> >MH wrote:
> >>
> >> "Katra" <Katra@centurytel.net> wrote in message
> >> news:3F072BCD.BB7D6416@centurytel.net...
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > suzee wrote:
> >> > >
> >> > > Elvis Parsley wrote:
> >> > > >
> >> > > > "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message
> >> > > > news:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranew-
> >> > > > s.com...
> >> > > > > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and
> >> > > > > meat do not digest together.
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology
> >> > > > lecture, or something?
> >> > >
> >> > > Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches.
> >> > > Food combining is not new; it states that one should
> >> > > eat veggies and protein together or veggies and
> >> > > starch, but not starch and protein. Fruits ought to
> >> > > be eaten separately. The reason is that starches `use
> >> > > up' the acids needed to digest proteins. It's been
> >> > > mentioned on smn in the last coupl weeks, and you
> >> > > could do a search for it.
> >> > >
> >> > > sue
> >> >
> >> > The best teacher for this particular concept is
> >> > personal experience...
> >> >
> >> > My dad finally convinced me to stop eating meat
> >> > sandwiches and to never combine starch with meat... I
> >> > have had chronic digestive problems for many years and
> >> > this advice has helped me more than anything ever has!
> >> > It is SO nice now to be able to eat a decent meal and
> >> > not feel crappy later! Veggie stir fry's with chicken,
> >> > lean pork, lean beef or fish rawk! Lotsa fresh ginger,
> >> > garlic, curry and onions. I've only recently discovered
> >> > the delights of curry powder.
> >> >
> >> > Without exception, any time I combine starch and meat
> >> > now, I notice that I feel ill after eating. And I never
> >> > stuff myself either. My meals nowadays are far smaller
> >> > than they ever were, and I feel far better than I ever
> >> > have, UNLESS I eat something stupid like a meat
> >> > sandwich with bread, (lettuce wraps are fine) or make
> >> > something like chicken and rice.
> >> >
> >> > No steak with potatoes... <g> No burgers and fries...
> >> > <sigh>
> >> >
> >> > K.
> >> >
> >> Personal experience is one of the worst forms of junk
> >> science. Please research through JAMA (Journal of the
> >> AMA), Scientific America, etc, to see if there is any
> >> validity to what you are saying. It has already proven to
> >> be incorrect, btw.
> >>
> >> Junk science sucks!
> >>
> >> Martha
> >
> >And what does the JAMA know about an individual's digestive
> >system?
>
> Just about everything, actually
>
> >Each person is *different* and something that bothers one
> >person doesn't faze another. *That's* the kind of personal
> >experience that's meaningful.
>
> But the differences are overwhelmingly outweighed by the
> similarities. Much of the differences are those of
> perception, or belief.

Right... after some experience, a person realizes they don't
digest fats well, or sweets, or meat. That's where the
perceptions come from The digestive *process* is the same for
all of us, but if one part of our system is not functioning
properly, it can make digesting certain types of food
difficult.

sue

[Steve Harr]

"Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
news:050720031807591955%cma@sympatico.ca...
> It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it.

Well, if it only happens with COLD milk, then why do the
scriptures enjoin specifically against SEETHING (boiling) a
lamb in its mother's milk? Yes, I know that in Jewish lore the
Rabbinical commentators extended this prohibition to include
any kind of meat and milk being put together, but that isn't
literally what the scripture says. The scripture refers
literally to cooking.

Maimonides thought that this milk "boiling" of meat was gross,
but also noted that the prohibition probably came about
because such boiling was a pagan festival custom. The idea
that this idea comes because the pagans were schlepping out of
their beds in the middle of the night for a midnight snack of
congealed lamb chop and cold milk out of the refrigerator, is
a silly vision.

SBH

[Carol Fril]

In article <beab28$r5p$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:

> "Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
> news:050720031807591955%cma@sympatico.ca...
> > It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it.
>
>
> Well, if it only happens with COLD milk, then why do the
> scriptures enjoin specifically against SEETHING (boiling) a
> lamb in its mother's milk? Yes, I know that in Jewish lore
> the Rabbinical commentators extended this prohibition to
> include any kind of meat and milk being put together, but
> that isn't literally what the scripture says. The scripture
> refers literally to cooking.
>
> Maimonides thought that this milk "boiling" of meat was
> gross, but also noted that the prohibition probably came
> about because such boiling was a pagan festival custom. The
> idea that this idea comes because the pagans were schlepping
> out of their beds in the middle of the night for a midnight
> snack of congealed lamb chop and cold milk out of the
> refrigerator, is a silly vision.
>
> SBH
>
Hot broiled lamb chops and cold milk. Cold lamb chops are an
act of desperation.

[taurusrc]

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:23:52 -0700, "Steve Harris"
<sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:

>
>"Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:050720031807591955%cma@sympatico.ca...
>> It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it.
>
>
>Well, if it only happens with COLD milk, then why do the
>scriptures enjoin specifically against SEETHING (boiling) a
>lamb in its mother's milk? Yes, I know that in Jewish lore
>the Rabbinical commentators extended this prohibition to
>include any kind of meat and milk being put together, but
>that isn't literally what the scripture says. The scripture
>refers literally to cooking.

>SBH

Cooking anything in milk is not really very satisfactory
because milk burns and scorches. If it gets hot enough to cook
meat it would not be very palatable and the protein would be
overcooked. Some of the prohibitions in the Bible are just
common sense and were emphasized because some people are not
very bright.

Ora

[Carol Fril]

In article <qqohgvcgn63r4j5hvbp74d3ln7b17pvapr@4ax.com>,
<taurusrc@pacbell.net> wrote:

>
> Cooking anything in milk is not really very satisfactory
> because milk burns and scorches. If it gets hot enough to
> cook meat it would not be very palatable and the protein
> would be overcooked. Some of the prohibitions in the Bible
> are just common sense and were emphasized because some
> people are not very bright.
>
> Ora

I am talking about EATING lamb chops and DRINKING cold milk,
not making a Strogonoff!

[Alf Christ]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:58:26 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
<elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:

>First off hydrocholoric acid doesn't digest protein or
>polysaccharides (starches), its function is to dissolve food
>into particulate matter, and kill bacteria. The enzymes (not
>HCl) pepsin (secreted within the stomach) and amylase
>(contained within the saliva), cause the partial digestion of

But the enzymes need low pH to function :-) So food that
increase pH over a certain limit, may hamper the digestion.

[Alf Christ]

On 6 Jul 2003 04:44:38 GMT, Eric Bohlman
<ebohlman@earthlink.net> wrote:

>Another function of the HCl is to convert pepsin from the
>inactive form (proenzyme) in which it is secreted to its
>active, proteolytic form. Why

No, active enzyme molecules are doing that job. But low pH is
needed for pepsin to work.

[Nicole Kid]

People looking for an explanation of how acid could be "used
up" should look to buffering. You can "use up" pH just by
putting salts into a solution. Sugar and an assortment of
small molecules must same some effect.

* People who use their knowledge of basic science to
extrapolate and deduce reality should do so with great
humility. Basic science on complex matters barely even
suffices to explain things after the fact.

[Carol Fril]

In article <6a56e14c.0307081710.67cad360@posting.google.com>,
Nicole Kidman <nicole_kidman@2die4.com> wrote:

>
> * People who use their knowledge of basic science to
> extrapolate and deduce reality should do so with great
> humility. Basic science on complex matters barely even
> suffices to explain things after the fact.

Is this the kind of stuff you told Tom Cruise when he found
out you were fooling around ? :-)

I though you guys were scientologists!

[Mattlb]

Nicole Kidman wrote:
>
> People looking for an explanation of how acid could be "used
> up" should look to buffering. You can "use up" pH just by
> putting salts into a solution. Sugar and an assortment of
> small molecules must same some effect.

Starch, sugars and carbohydrates in general aren't alkaline so
can't act as buffers, nor use up the acid in your stomach.
"Salts" is misleading too, as most salts (including normal sea
salt) don't buffer either. Salts which do are: oxides,
hydroxides and carbonates. Small amounts of calcium carbonate
are added to bread, but probably not enough to make a
significant difference to the pH of the stomach.

MattLB

[Moosh:]]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 04:36:54 -0700, suzee
<suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:

>Elvis Parsley wrote:
>>
>> "suzee" <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote in message
>> news:3F070D49.FA5EFE36@nidlink.com...
>> >
>> > Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches.
>> > Food combining is not new; it states that one should eat
>> > veggies and protein together or
>>
>> May not be new, but it isn't right. Should I throw away my
>> human physiology book, and go "ohmmm" to my mountain?
>> Seriously, a friend of mine read a book (I believe it was
>> fit for life or something like that), he believed the exact
>> same thing as you believe now, I had to hit him in the head
>> with a hammer. Free the demons! Free the demons!
>
>I didn't say I believed it, just trying to explain it.

It's been explained.

It's all in your head.

[Moosh:]]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 18:06:42 +0200, Alf Christophersen
<alf.christophersen@basalmed.uio.no> wrote:

>On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 03:58:26 GMT, "Elvis Parsley"
><elvisparsley@rogers.com> wrote:
>
>>First off hydrocholoric acid doesn't digest protein or
>>polysaccharides (starches), its function is to dissolve
>>food into particulate matter, and kill bacteria. The
>>enzymes (not HCl) pepsin (secreted within the stomach) and
>>amylase (contained within the saliva), cause the partial
>>digestion of
>
>But the enzymes need low pH to function :-) So food that
>increase pH over a certain limit, may hamper the digestion.

What foods do you have in mind, Alf?

[Moosh:]]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 04:35:26 -0700, suzee
<suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:

>MMO0$H wrote:
>>
>> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 19:27:14 -0700, suzee
>> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>>
>> >M00SH wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 10:39:21 -0700, suzee
>> >> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Elvis Parsley wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> "Gym Bob" <NonAtAll@nospam.com> wrote in message new-
>> >> >> s:750a93759737b81180aba64a8d4fda90@free.teranews.com-
>> >> >> ...
>> >> >> > Just plain carbs and/or food combining. Bread and
>> >> >> > meat do not digest together.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Sure they do. Did I miss the new physiology lecture,
>> >> >> or something?
>> >> >
>> >> >Rather than carbs, he ought to have written starches.
>> >> >Food combining is not new; it states that one should
>> >> >eat veggies and protein together or veggies and starch,
>> >> >but not starch and protein.
>> >>
>> >> Rubbish. Grains have protein and starch, as do pulses
>> >> (legumes) and many vegetables. Starches start to change
>> >> to sugars in the mouth. Starch is just "polyglucose"
>> >
>> >> >Fruits ought to be eaten separately. The reason is that
>> >> >starches `use up' the acids needed to digest proteins.
>> >>
>> >> How do they do this? Fruits contain acids themselves.
>> >
>> >Digestive acids?
>>
>> It's the pH that matters and the hydrogen + ion is the same
>> world wide :)
>>
>> How do starches "use up" the acids in the stomach?
>
>Use up may have been the wrong term to use. See the
>information in another post in this thread regarding the
>theory of why starchy foods should not be mixed with meats
>and dairy protein.

Sorry, don't see it.

Could you copy and paste it, or give us a brief outline?

[Moosh:]]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 05:13:33 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>> >It's an idividual thing, cheesecake doesn't bother me.
>> >Though I'm sure it also depends on how large the piece
>> >is... ;)
>>
>> And how much fat it contains. This can vary from none to
>> "heaps".
>
>Anything less than 'heaps" is gruel.

Good one! :)

>It's Carole's Cheesecake made by Carole Ogus in Toronto who
>turned her gandmother's recipe into a very successful
>business. My favorite flavor? Heartburn! it was my main
>maintenance treat until it started forest fires in the
>tummy.Contains eggs, sugar and cream.

Get behind me, Satan :)

[Moosh:]]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 04:33:26 -0700, suzee
<suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:

>MMO0$H wrote:

>> >And what does the JAMA know about an individual's
>> >digestive system?
>>
>> Just about everything, actually
>>
>> >Each person is *different* and something that bothers one
>> >person doesn't faze another. *That's* the kind of personal
>> >experience that's meaningful.
>>
>> But the differences are overwhelmingly outweighed by the
>> similarities. Much of the differences are those of
>> perception, or belief.
>
>Right... after some experience, a person realizes they don't
>digest fats well, or sweets, or meat. That's where the
>perceptions come from The digestive *process* is the same for
>all of us, but if one part of our system is not functioning
>properly, it can make digesting certain types of food
>difficult.

I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and treatment.

Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is relatively rare.

[Moosh:]]

On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:23:52 -0700, "Steve Harris"
<sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:

>
>"Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>news:050720031807591955%cma@sympatico.ca...
>> It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it.
>
>
>Well, if it only happens with COLD milk, then why do the
>scriptures enjoin specifically against SEETHING (boiling) a
>lamb in its mother's milk? Yes, I know that in Jewish lore
>the Rabbinical commentators extended this prohibition to
>include any kind of meat and milk being put together, but
>that isn't literally what the scripture says. The scripture
>refers literally to cooking.
>
>Maimonides thought that this milk "boiling" of meat was
>gross, but also noted that the prohibition probably came
>about because such boiling was a pagan festival custom. The
>idea that this idea comes because the pagans were schlepping
>out of their beds in the middle of the night for a midnight
>snack of congealed lamb chop and cold milk out of the
>refrigerator, is a silly vision.

But a bloody funny one :) Thanks.

[Moosh:]]

On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 20:17:26 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <beab28$r5p$1@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, Steve
>Harris <sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
>
>> "Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>> news:050720031807591955%cma@sympatico.ca...
>> > It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it.
>>
>>
>> Well, if it only happens with COLD milk, then why do the
>> scriptures enjoin specifically against SEETHING (boiling) a
>> lamb in its mother's milk? Yes, I know that in Jewish lore
>> the Rabbinical commentators extended this prohibition to
>> include any kind of meat and milk being put together, but
>> that isn't literally what the scripture says. The scripture
>> refers literally to cooking.
>>
>> Maimonides thought that this milk "boiling" of meat was
>> gross, but also noted that the prohibition probably came
>> about because such boiling was a pagan festival custom. The
>> idea that this idea comes because the pagans were
>> schlepping out of their beds in the middle of the night for
>> a midnight snack of congealed lamb chop and cold milk out
>> of the refrigerator, is a silly vision.
>>
>> SBH
>>
>Hot broiled lamb chops and cold milk.

Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb chops and
cold water don't do the same thing?

>Cold lamb chops are an act of desperation.

Almost fatless Australian lamb chops are wonderful cold :)

[Moosh:]]

On Mon, 07 Jul 2003 03:10:42 GMT, taurusrc@pacbell.net wrote:

>On Sun, 6 Jul 2003 16:23:52 -0700, "Steve Harris"
><sbharris@ix.RETICULATEDOBJECTcom.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Carol Frilegh" <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote in message
>>news:050720031807591955%cma@sympatico.ca...
>>> It only happens with lamb chops and cold milk. Try it.
>>
>>
>>Well, if it only happens with COLD milk, then why do the
>>scriptures enjoin specifically against SEETHING (boiling) a
>>lamb in its mother's milk? Yes, I know that in Jewish lore
>>the Rabbinical commentators extended this prohibition to
>>include any kind of meat and milk being put together, but
>>that isn't literally what the scripture says. The scripture
>>refers literally to cooking.
>
>>SBH
>
>Cooking anything in milk is not really very satisfactory
>because milk burns and scorches.

Only if you are not very bright :) Fish poached in milk is
to die for.

> If it gets hot enough to cook meat it would not be very
> palatable and the protein would be overcooked.

How overcooked? Boiling milk is a problem? You don't have to
cremate meat to cook it, BTW.

>Some of the prohibitions in the Bible are just common sense
>and were emphasized because some people are not very bright.

And most are either just comforting tradition or dogma, today.
Pork was proscribed coz of Taenia soleum (pork tape worm).
That is not a problem with most pork today, but the tradition
continues.

A tradition that should be invoked today would be for dumb
shop girls to not mix fresh and cooked meat. The number of
times I've had to explain to them that they need to change
their gloves after handling fresh chicken, when they start to
handle cooked meat (or anything else) in the deli.

[Carol Fril]

In article <530vgvc5noqbdripp9ko5pc8181q3vrbdv@4ax.com>,
Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:

> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 04:33:26 -0700, suzee
> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>
> >MMO0$H wrote:
>
> >> >And what does the JAMA know about an individual's
> >> >digestive system?
> >>
> >> Just about everything, actually
> >>
> >> >Each person is *different* and something that bothers
> >> >one person doesn't faze another. *That's* the kind of
> >> >personal experience that's meaningful.
> >>
> >> But the differences are overwhelmingly outweighed by the
> >> similarities. Much of the differences are those of
> >> perception, or belief.
> >
> >Right... after some experience, a person realizes they
> >don't digest fats well, or sweets, or meat. That's where
> >the perceptions come from The digestive *process* is the
> >same for all of us, but if one part of our system is not
> >functioning properly, it can make digesting certain types
> >of food difficult.
>
> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and treatment.
>
> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is
> relatively rare.
>
>
http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3

[Carol Fril]

In article <ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>,
Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:

> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb chops and
> cold water don't do the same thing?

Never had the pleasure of that combo.

[Alf Christ]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 03:35:24 GMT, "Moosh:]"
<buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:

>What foods do you have in mind, Alf?

Most food has components that in part neutralize the acid and
if you eat too much food in a meal, pH may increase so much
that the activity of the enzymes will be reduced with more
than 50%, and maybe much more.

Even acids like vinegar may increase pH (pKa is much higher
for acetic acid than HCl!) if ingested enough compared to
stomach juice volume.

[Moosh:]]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:43:43 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <530vgvc5noqbdripp9ko5pc8181q3vrbdv@4ax.com>,
>Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>
>> On Sun, 06 Jul 2003 04:33:26 -0700, suzee
>> <suzeeq@nidlink.com> wrote:
>>
>> >MMO0$H wrote:
>>
>> >> >And what does the JAMA know about an individual's
>> >> >digestive system?
>> >>
>> >> Just about everything, actually
>> >>
>> >> >Each person is *different* and something that bothers
>> >> >one person doesn't faze another. *That's* the kind of
>> >> >personal experience that's meaningful.
>> >>
>> >> But the differences are overwhelmingly outweighed by the
>> >> similarities. Much of the differences are those of
>> >> perception, or belief.
>> >
>> >Right... after some experience, a person realizes they
>> >don't digest fats well, or sweets, or meat. That's where
>> >the perceptions come from The digestive *process* is the
>> >same for all of us, but if one part of our system is not
>> >functioning properly, it can make digesting certain types
>> >of food difficult.
>>
>> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and treatment.
>>
>> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is
>> relatively rare.
>>
>>
> http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3

Sorry. This is wrong in so many areas, it's difficult to know
where to start. Try an elementary physiology text instead.

[Moosh:]]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:44:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>,
>Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>
>> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb chops and
>> cold water don't do the same thing?
>
>Never had the pleasure of that combo.

You should try it. The fat coagulates with any cold drink.

[Moosh:]]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:38:30 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <fhrvgv4n28ti6dgn6qmg000vanpu2jp6hp@4ax.com>,
>Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and
>> >> treatment.
>> >>
>> >> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is relatively
>> >> rare.
>> >>
>> >>
>> > http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3
>>
>> Sorry. This is wrong in so many areas, it's difficult to
>> know where to start. Try an elementary physiology text
>> instead.
>
>Elementary texts allow rice, corn and soy on diets for gastro
>intestinal diseases.

Do they? I doubt they even deal with this. My point was to
learn some elementary physiology so you can see how wrong this
site is in so many areas. BTW, why should these foods be
disallowed for gastrointestinal diseases?

> the Specific Carbohydrtae Diet, which does not, has been
> effective in about 75% of those who have adhered to it for
> at least a year.

And what would have happened in a year if it wasn't adhered
to? We'll never know.

>You may be bugerall but you don't know all.

Absolutely correct. I rely on physiology texts for my
information on physiology, not flaky websites.

[Moosh:]]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 07:38:57 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <gkrvgv0vs9nbvred4kk2bli1pitd20ehhc@4ax.com>,
>Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:44:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
>> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>,
>> >Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb chops
>> >> and cold water don't do the same thing?
>> >
>> >Never had the pleasure of that combo.
>>
>> You should try it. The fat coagulates with any cold drink.
>>
>It sounds gross.

It is. About the same as drinking cold milk with hot broiled
lamb chops. It's the cold that coagulates the fat, not what
the drink is composed of. My point, I think.

[Moosh:]]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:26:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <gkrvgv0vs9nbvred4kk2bli1pitd20ehhc@4ax.com>,
>Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:44:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
>> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>,
>> >Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb chops
>> >> and cold water don't do the same thing?
>> >
>> >Never had the pleasure of that combo.
>>
>> You should try it. The fat coagulates with any cold drink.
>>
>W used to drink coke or juice with the lamb chops and did nit
>have the oribkem with congealed fat.

And when I was a child, I had to drink a glass of cold milk at
every meal. I never experienced what you describe. But if you
have a mouth full of sat fat and drink a cold drink, what do
you reckon happens? What do you think the melting range of sat
fat is? BTW, sat fat is not soluble in coke or fruit juice.

[Carol Fril]

In article <fhrvgv4n28ti6dgn6qmg000vanpu2jp6hp@4ax.com>,
Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> >>
> >> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and treatment.
> >>
> >> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is relatively
> >> rare.
> >>
> >>
> > http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3
>
> Sorry. This is wrong in so many areas, it's difficult to
> know where to start. Try an elementary physiology text
> instead.

Elementary texts allow rice, corn and soy on diets for gastro
intestinal diseases. the Specific Carbohydrtae Diet, which
does not, has been effective in about 75% of those who have
adhered to it for at least a year. You may be bugerall but you
don't know all.

[Carol Fril]

In article <gkrvgv0vs9nbvred4kk2bli1pitd20ehhc@4ax.com>,
Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:44:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >In article <ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>,
> >Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> >
> >> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb chops
> >> and cold water don't do the same thing?
> >
> >Never had the pleasure of that combo.
>
> You should try it. The fat coagulates with any cold drink.
>
It sounds gross.

[Carol Fril]

In article <gkrvgv0vs9nbvred4kk2bli1pitd20ehhc@4ax.com>,
Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:44:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >In article <ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>,
> >Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> >
> >> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb chops
> >> and cold water don't do the same thing?
> >
> >Never had the pleasure of that combo.
>
> You should try it. The fat coagulates with any cold drink.
>
W used to drink coke or juice with the lamb chops and did nit
have the oribkem with congealed fat.

[Carol Fril]

In article <tp00hvs4p2j71jom4k05d1vfs4eo17mcuk@4ax.com>,
Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:

> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:26:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>
> >In article <gkrvgv0vs9nbvred4kk2bli1pitd20ehhc@4ax.com>,
> >Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> >
> >> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:44:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
> >> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
> >>
> >> >In article <ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>,
> >> >Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb
> >> >> chops and cold water don't do the same thing?
> >> >
> >> >Never had the pleasure of that combo.
> >>
> >> You should try it. The fat coagulates with any cold
> >> drink.
> >>
> >W used to drink coke or juice with the lamb chops and did
> >nit have the oribkem with congealed fat.
>
> And when I was a child, I had to drink a glass of cold milk
> at every meal. I never experienced what you describe. But if
> you have a mouth full of sat fat and drink a cold drink,
> what do you reckon happens? What do you think the melting
> range of sat fat is? BTW, sat fat is not soluble in coke or
> fruit juice.
>
Your mission if you choose to accept it is to try both and
report back. .

[Moosh:]]

On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 09:02:11 -0400, Carol Frilegh
<cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:

>In article <tp00hvs4p2j71jom4k05d1vfs4eo17mcuk@4ax.com>,
>Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 08:26:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
>> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <gkrvgv0vs9nbvred4kk2bli1pitd20ehhc@4ax.com>,
>> >Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Sat, 12 Jul 2003 06:44:52 -0400, Carol Frilegh
>> >> <cma@sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >In article
>> >> ><ob0vgvkudmf2gs0ja3bh4l3vb7f108fis1@4ax.com>, Moosh:]
>> >> ><buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Have you responded anywhere that hot broiled lamb
>> >> >> chops and cold water don't do the same thing?
>> >> >
>> >> >Never had the pleasure of that combo.
>> >>
>> >> You should try it. The fat coagulates with any cold
>> >> drink.
>> >>
>> >W used to drink coke or juice with the lamb chops and did
>> >nit have the oribkem with congealed fat.
>>
>> And when I was a child, I had to drink a glass of cold milk
>> at every meal. I never experienced what you describe. But
>> if you have a mouth full of sat fat and drink a cold drink,
>> what do you reckon happens? What do you think the melting
>> range of sat fat is? BTW, sat fat is not soluble in coke or
>> fruit juice.
>>
>Your mission if you choose to accept it is to try both and
>report back.

No thanks. Tried it a long time ago. I don't eat fatty chops
these days.

[Pbeyer]

Carol Frilegh wrote:

> In article <fhrvgv4n28ti6dgn6qmg000vanpu2jp6hp@4ax.com>,
> Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and
> > >> treatment.
> > >>
> > >> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is relatively
> > >> rare.
> > >>
> > >>
> > > http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3
> >
> > Sorry. This is wrong in so many areas, it's difficult to
> > know where to start. Try an elementary physiology text
> > instead.
>
> Elementary texts allow rice, corn and soy on diets for
> gastro intestinal diseases. the Specific Carbohydrtae Diet,
> which does not, has been effective in about 75% of those who
> have adhered to it for at least a year. You may be bugerall
> but you don't know all.
> >

Sorry-- Moosh is quite right here. The information on this
website is quite wrong and misleading. Eg the bit about acids
from bacterial degradation of sugars being bad for the lining
of the intestine-- The is exactly the opposite-- The organic
acids (eg propionate and butyrate) are natural and serve as
fuels for the cells lining the GI tract-- and they facilitate
the absorption of salts and water, to name a few functions. In
inflammatory bowel diseases, (ulcerative colitis) the organic
acids have been used as therapy. Pete

[Carol Fril]

In article <3F12BC91.F04266BB@xspamkumc.edu>, pbeyer
<pbeyer@xspamkumc.edu> wrote:

> Carol Frilegh wrote:
>
> > In article <fhrvgv4n28ti6dgn6qmg000vanpu2jp6hp@4ax.com>,
> > Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and
> > > >> treatment.
> > > >>
> > > >> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is
> > > >> relatively rare.
> > > >>
> > > >>
> > > > http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3
> > >
> > > Sorry. This is wrong in so many areas, it's difficult to
> > > know where to start. Try an elementary physiology text
> > > instead.
> >
> > Elementary texts allow rice, corn and soy on diets for
> > gastro intestinal diseases. the Specific Carbohydrtae
> > Diet, which does not, has been effective in about 75% of
> > those who have adhered to it for at least a year. You may
> > be bugerall but you don't know all.
> > >
>
> Sorry-- Moosh is quite right here. The information on this
> website is quite wrong and misleading. Eg the bit about
> acids from bacterial degradation of sugars being bad for the
> lining of the intestine-- The is exactly the opposite-- The
> organic acids (eg propionate and butyrate) are natural and
> serve as fuels for the cells lining the GI tract-- and they
> facilitate the absorption of salts and water, to name a few
> functions. In inflammatory bowel diseases, (ulcerative
> colitis) the organic acids have been used as therapy. Pete
>
Many dietery fats ( butter, nut oils, olive and even oils
from grains) are well tolerated but dissacharide sugars
contribute to bacterial overgrowth and candida. Commercial
antacids like Tums and Pepto Bismal eally make things even
worse for many gastric conditions. Mono saccharides like
those found in honey, fruit (ripe bananas especially) are
usually easily digested.

[Pbeyer]

Carol Frilegh wrote:

> In article <3F12BC91.F04266BB@xspamkumc.edu>, pbeyer
> <pbeyer@xspamkumc.edu> wrote:
>
> > Carol Frilegh wrote:
> >
> > > In article <fhrvgv4n28ti6dgn6qmg000vanpu2jp6hp@4ax.com>,
> > > Moosh:] <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> > > > >>
> > > > >> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and
> > > > >> treatment.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is
> > > > >> relatively rare.
> > > > >>
> > > > >>
> > > > > http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3
> > > >
> > > > Sorry. This is wrong in so many areas, it's difficult
> > > > to know where to start. Try an elementary physiology
> > > > text instead.
> > >
> > > Elementary texts allow rice, corn and soy on diets for
> > > gastro intestinal diseases. the Specific Carbohydrtae
> > > Diet, which does not, has been effective in about 75% of
> > > those who have adhered to it for at least a year. You
> > > may be bugerall but you don't know all.
> > > >
> >
> > Sorry-- Moosh is quite right here. The information on this
> > website is quite wrong and misleading. Eg the bit about
> > acids from bacterial degradation of sugars being bad for
> > the lining of the intestine-- The is exactly the
> > opposite-- The organic acids (eg propionate and butyrate)
> > are natural and serve as fuels for the cells lining the GI
> > tract-- and they facilitate the absorption of salts and
> > water, to name a few functions. In inflammatory bowel
> > diseases, (ulcerative colitis) the organic acids have been
> > used as therapy. Pete
> >
> Many dietery fats ( butter, nut oils, olive and even oils
> from grains) are well tolerated but dissacharide sugars
> contribute to bacterial overgrowth and candida. Commercial
> antacids like Tums and Pepto Bismal eally make things even
> worse for many gastric conditions. Mono saccharides like
> those found in honey, fruit (ripe bananas especially) are
> usually easily digested.

Not accurate as a general statement. Someone or some sites you
are reading are providing you innacurate information.
Consuming most starches or disaccharides do not cause
bacterial overgrowth or candida. Many monosaccharides, eg
fructose, sorbitol, xylitol are poorly absorbed and can
contribute to increased bacterial mass, cramping and loose
stools. You need to read some real nutrition/physiology
sources regarding digestion and absorption of foods. Pete

[Carol Fril]

In article <3F12F82E.19878FF1@xspamkumc.edu>, pbeyer
<pbeyer@xspamkumc.edu> wrote:

> Carol Frilegh wrote:
>
> > In article <3F12BC91.F04266BB@xspamkumc.edu>, pbeyer
> > <pbeyer@xspamkumc.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > Carol Frilegh wrote:
> > >
> > > > In article
> > > > <fhrvgv4n28ti6dgn6qmg000vanpu2jp6hp@4ax.com>, Moosh:]
> > > > <buggerall@nowt.zilch> wrote:
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> I would go to a doctor and get a diagnosis and
> > > > > >> treatment.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Inability to digest fats, sweets, or meat is
> > > > > >> relatively rare.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >>
> > > > > > http://www.newtreatments.org/scdiet.php3
> > > > >
> > > > > Sorry. This is wrong in so many areas, it's
> > > > > difficult to know where to start. Try an elementary
> > > > > physiology text instead.
> > > >
> > > > Elementary texts allow rice, corn and soy on diets for
> > > > gastro intestinal diseases. the Specific Carbohydrtae
> > > > Diet, which does not, has been effective in about 75%
> > > > of those who have adhered to it for at least a year.
> > > > You may be bugerall but you don't know all.
> > > > >
> > >
> > > Sorry-- Moosh is quite right here. The information on
> > > this website is quite wrong and misleading. Eg the bit
> > > about acids from bacterial degradation of sugars being
> > > bad for the lining of the intestine-- The is exactly the
> > > opposite-- The organic acids (eg propionate and
> > > butyrate) are natural and serve as fuels for the cells
> > > lining the GI tract-- and they facilitate the absorption
> > > of salts and water, to name a few functions. In
> >