heart rate question

[Jose Yimph]

So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically slack
off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).

In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
(i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
breaths every 50 yards).

His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get a
better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.

This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would go
up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my teammates)
often muttered under our breaths that we could get just as
good a workout if we went home and jerked off for thirty
minutes while holding our breaths.

Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
cardiovascular shape?

(of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

[Gary Weide]

You're over reacting to complaints about your excessive
posting. Don't post in this newsgroup again, got it.

"Jose Yimpho" <joe@rainbowsheep.net> wrote in message
news:mDydnXOZiYOpzEujXTWc-w@speakeasy.net...
> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
> train hard
for
> a long time, cycling the different types of workouts. Then
> you rest, do more speed work and less overall distance to
> plateau for your chosen race (and basically slack off for
> the two/three weeks prior to the event).
>
> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
> they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
> (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
> breaths every 50 yards).
>
> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
> a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
>
> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
> go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
> teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
> get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
> for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>
> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> cardiovascular
shape?
>
> (of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
> and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
> better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
> speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

[Jose Yimph]

Crap -- that should read "So when you train for a swimming
race, ... "

In news:mDydnXOZiYOpzEujXTWc-w@speakeasy.net, Jose Yimpho
<joe@rainbowsheep.net> spewed:
> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
> train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
> workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
> distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically
> slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).
>
> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
> they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
> (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
> breaths every 50 yards).
>
> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
> a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
>
> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
> go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
> teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
> get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
> for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>
> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> cardiovascular shape?
>
> (of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
> and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
> better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
> speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

[Tom Morley]

In article <mDydnXOZiYOpzEujXTWc-w@speakeasy.net>, "Jose
Yimpho" <joe@rainbowsheep.net> wrote:

> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
> train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
> workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
> distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically
> slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).
>
> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
> they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
> (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
> breaths every 50 yards).
>
> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
> a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
>
> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
> go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
> teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
> get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
> for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>
> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> cardiovascular shape?
>
> (of course -- breathing during swimming races slows you down
> and so it's good to practice not breathing. But it would be
> better to practice not breathing during race conditions --
> speed training -- as opposed to long slow swims, I think.)

I've seen this with a lot of coaches. It has always seemed
like bad science to me.

--
Tom Morley | morley@math.gatech.edu | Same roads,
tmorley@bmtc.mindspring.com | Same rights,
http://www.math.gatech.edu/~morley | Same rules.
ICQ: 24798603 AIM: DocTDM |

[Jose Yimph]

In news:WI2cnTzNfcBm_UujRTvU3Q@giganews.com, Gary Weider
<sour@fitness8.com> spewed:
> You're over reacting to complaints about your excessive
> posting. Don't post in this newsgroup again, got it.
>

It's about time I got my own personal troll.

[Lyle McDon]

Jose Yimpho wrote:
>
> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is to
> train hard for a long time, cycling the different types of
> workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less overall
> distance to plateau for your chosen race (and basically
> slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the event).
>
> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity
> they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of breath control
> (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal breathing -- say two
> breaths every 50 yards).
>
> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd get
> a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
>
> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate would
> go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my
> teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we could
> get just as good a workout if we went home and jerked off
> for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>
> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> cardiovascular shape?

The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate with
aerobic effect.

What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy for
oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate than
oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well with it
within a certain range (from rest to lactate threshold more or
less) under certain conditions.

However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as I
recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a msucular aerobic
standpoint, it's the muscular work output that's important to
stimulating adaptations.

An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
uptake by the muscles you're interested in.

Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing the
work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So no
muscular adaptation there.

Lyle

[August Pam]

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> Jose Yimpho wrote:
> >
> > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
> > to train
hard for
> > a long time, cycling the different types of workouts.
> > Then you
rest, do
> > more speed work and less overall distance to plateau for
> > your chosen
race
> > (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior
> > to the
event).
> >
> > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
> > shape but
to
> > minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity they did,
> > my coach
would
> > incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
> > swims with
minimal
> > breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
> >
> > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
> > would go
up
> > without having to work harder and thus we'd get a better
> > aerobic
workout
> > while keeping intensity low.
> >
> > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
> > would go up
but it
> > seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my teammates) often
> > muttered
under
> > our breaths that we could get just as good a workout if we
> > went home
and
> > jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
> >
> > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
cardiovascular shape?
>
> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
> with aerobic
effect.
>
> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy for
> oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate than
> oxygen uptake in
the
> rela world), correlating well with it within a certain
> range (from
rest
> to lactate threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
>
> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
> oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as I
> recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a msucular aerobic
> standpoint, it's the muscular work output that's important
> to stimulating adaptations.
>
> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
> uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
>
> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So no
> muscular
adaptation there.
>
> Lyle

Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state have
any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever. Could it
raise lactate production? Why or why not would it have
such a beneficial training effect and what would this
beneficial training effect (if it exists) be?

Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew.
Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You
are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 To email replace
'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'

[Lysis]

In article <3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:

>However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
>oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as I
>recall (i.e.

No, it's the horizontal posture plus the weightless
environment.

[Jose Yimph]

In
news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net,
August Pamplona
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> spewed:
> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
>>>
>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
>>> to train hard for a long time, cycling the different types
>>> of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and less
>>> overall distance to plateau for your chosen race (and
>>> basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior to the
>>> event).
>>>
>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
>>> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and
>>> intesnsity they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of
>>> breath control (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal
>>> breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
>>>
>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
>>> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd
>>> get a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
>>>
>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
>>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
>>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
>>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>>>
>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
>>> cardiovascular shape?
>>
>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate with
>> aerobic effect.
>>
>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
>>
>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
>> oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as
>> I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a msucular
>> aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output that's
>> important to stimulating adaptations.
>>
>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
>> uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
>>
>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
>> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
>> no muscular adaptation there.
>>
>> Lyle
>
> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
> it have such a beneficial training effect and what would
> this beneficial training effect (if it exists) be?
>
> Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona

I'm a little hazy on this, but...

Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get into
the anaerobic energy system.

The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from hypoxic
training is increasing your LT threshold with less intensity.

Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate molecule
produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns the muscle
acidic which then makes you tired and affects your nervous
system. This makes me feel really nauseous and I throw up
rather easily. Why haven't they made an Anti-Hydrogen-Ion
drink or supplement that cleans my system of this stupid ion?

[Lyle McDon]

August Pamplona wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > Jose Yimpho wrote:
> > >
> > > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
> > > is to train
> hard for
> > > a long time, cycling the different types of workouts.
> > > Then you
> rest, do
> > > more speed work and less overall distance to plateau for
> > > your chosen
> race
> > > (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior
> > > to the
> event).
> > >
> > > In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
> > > cardiovascular shape but
> to
> > > minimize the amount of distance and intesnsity they did,
> > > my coach
> would
> > > incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
> > > swims with
> minimal
> > > breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
> > >
> > > His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
> > > rate would go
> up
> > > without having to work harder and thus we'd get a better
> > > aerobic
> workout
> > > while keeping intensity low.
> > >
> > > This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
> > > would go up
> but it
> > > seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and my teammates)
> > > often muttered
> under
> > > our breaths that we could get just as good a workout if
> > > we went home
> and
> > > jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
> > >
> > > Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> cardiovascular shape?
> >
> > The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
> > with aerobic
> effect.
> >
> > What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
> > for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
> > than oxygen uptake in
> the
> > rela world), correlating well with it within a certain
> > range (from
> rest
> > to lactate threshold more or less) under certain
> > conditions.
> >
> > However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
> > given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
> > effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
> > msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output
> > that's important to stimulating adaptations.
> >
> > An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
> > anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
> > uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
> >
> > Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
> > the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
> > no muscular
> adaptation there.
> >
> > Lyle
>
> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
> it have such a beneficial training effect and what would
> this beneficial training effect (if it exists) be?

I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
anything.

There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in a
chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an
effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They have them
sleeping in the tents to give you an idea of what's involved
time-wise.

I can't imagine holding your breath for a minute or two is
going to do jack shit.

Lyle

[Jose Yimph]

In news:1054251425.445571@athprx02, lysis
<lysis@all.places.gr> spewed:
> In article <3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
> lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:
>
>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a given
>> oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature effect as
>> I recall (i.e.
>
> No, it's the horizontal posture plus the weightless
> environment.

True. You don't fight gravity in the pool. Your heart doesn't
have to pump blood downwards and upwards in the body.

[Jose Yimph]

In news:hOydnUyxeo72B0ujXTWc-g@speakeasy.net, Jose Yimpho
<joe@rainbowsheep.net> spewed:
> In news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink-
> .net, August Pamplona
> <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> spewed:
>> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
>> message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
>>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
>>>> to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
>>>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and
>>>> less overall distance to plateau for your chosen race
>>>> (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior to
>>>> the event).
>>>>
>>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
>>>> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and
>>>> intesnsity they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of
>>>> breath control (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal
>>>> breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
>>>>
>>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
>>>> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd
>>>> get a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
>>>>
>>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
>>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
>>>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
>>>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
>>>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>>>>
>>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
>>>> cardiovascular shape?
>>>
>>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
>>> with aerobic effect.
>>>
>>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
>>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
>>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
>>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
>>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
>>>
>>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
>>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
>>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
>>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output
>>> that's important to stimulating adaptations.
>>>
>>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
>>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
>>> uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
>>>
>>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
>>> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
>>> no muscular adaptation there.
>>>
>>> Lyle
>>
>> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
>> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
>> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
>> it have such a beneficial training effect and what
>> would this beneficial training effect (if it exists)
>> be?
>>
>> Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
>
> I'm a little hazy on this, but...
>
> Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
> energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get
> into the anaerobic energy system.
>
> The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from
> hypoxic training is increasing your LT threshold with less
> intensity.
>
> Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
> molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
> the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
> your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
> I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
> Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
> of this stupid ion?

Maybe this drink is known as water + baking soda? I'm no good
at chemistry.

[Lyle McDon]

Jose Yimpho wrote:
>
> In news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink-
> .net, August Pamplona
> <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> spewed:
> > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> > message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> >> Jose Yimpho wrote:
> >>>
> >>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
> >>> is to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
> >>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and
> >>> less overall distance to plateau for your chosen race
> >>> (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior
> >>> to the event).
> >>>
> >>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
> >>> cardiovascular shape but to minimize the amount of
> >>> distance and intesnsity they did, my coach would
> >>> incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
> >>> swims with minimal breathing -- say two breaths every 50
> >>> yards).
> >>>
> >>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
> >>> rate would go up without having to work harder and thus
> >>> we'd get a better aerobic workout while keeping
> >>> intensity low.
> >>>
> >>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
> >>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
> >>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
> >>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
> >>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
> >>>
> >>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> >>> cardiovascular shape?
> >>
> >> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
> >> with aerobic effect.
> >>
> >> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
> >> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
> >> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
> >> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
> >> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
> >>
> >> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
> >> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
> >> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
> >> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work
> >> output that's important to stimulating adaptations.
> >>
> >> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
> >> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in
> >> oxygen uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
> >>
> >> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
> >> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
> >> no muscular adaptation there.
> >>
> >> Lyle
> >
> > Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
> > have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
> > Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not
> > would it have such a beneficial training effect and
> > what would this beneficial training effect (if it
> > exists) be?
> >
> > Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
>
> I'm a little hazy on this, but...
>
> Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
> energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get
> into the anaerobic energy system.
>
> The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from
> hypoxic training is increasing your LT threshold with less
> intensity.
>
> Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
> molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
> the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
> your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
> I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
> Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
> of this stupid ion?

sodium bicarbonate works very well at high doses (I forget
offhand). It also gives most people what they euphemistically
described as gastric upset (translate as: explosive diarrhea).

loading with dibasic sodium phosphate works too. 4 g/day for 4
days or 8 g the day before a competition. Twinlab used to make
a product (forget the name and it had a few other things that
might help) that contained it, dunno if they still do.

Cytomax, a drink used by endurance weenies, contains
polylactates that the manufacturer claims lowers lactic acid
levels but no study I'm aware of has ever demonstrated that
it does jack squat in this regards (cyclists still swear by
the stuff).

Lyle

[Jose Yimph]

In news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net, Lyle
McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> spewed:
> August Pamplona wrote:
>>
>> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
>> message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
>>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
>>>>
>>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do is
>>>> to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
>>>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and
>>>> less overall distance to plateau for your chosen race
>>>> (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior to
>>>> the event).
>>>>
>>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good cardiovascular
>>>> shape but to minimize the amount of distance and
>>>> intesnsity they did, my coach would incorporate a lot of
>>>> breath control (i.e. rather slow swims with minimal
>>>> breathing -- say two breaths every 50 yards).
>>>>
>>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart rate
>>>> would go up without having to work harder and thus we'd
>>>> get a better aerobic workout while keeping intensity low.
>>>>
>>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
>>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
>>>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
>>>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
>>>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>>>>
>>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
>>>> cardiovascular shape?
>>>
>>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
>>> with aerobic effect.
>>>
>>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
>>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
>>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
>>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
>>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
>>>
>>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
>>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
>>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
>>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work output
>>> that's important to stimulating adaptations.
>>>
>>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
>>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
>>> uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
>>>
>>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
>>> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
>>> no muscular adaptation there.
>>>
>>> Lyle
>>
>> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
>> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
>> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not would
>> it have such a beneficial training effect and what
>> would this beneficial training effect (if it exists)
>> be?
>
> I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
> anything.

Although training at altititude does give you an advantage in
most endurance sports. There's a reason why the Olympic
Training Center is in Denver.

>
> There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in a
> chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
> special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an
> effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They have
> them sleeping in the tents to give you an idea of what's
> involved time-wise.

I think I read an article in Wired magazine that talked about
Nike sponsoring the "marathoners of the future". They lived in
sealed houses or something with special air.

>
> I can't imagine holding your breath for a minute or two is
> going to do jack shit.

Yeah, same here.

>
> Lyle

[Lyle McDon]

Jose Yimpho wrote:
>
> In news:1054251425.445571@athprx02, lysis
> <lysis@all.places.gr> spewed:
> > In article <3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
> > lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:
> >
> >> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
> >> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
> >> effect as I recall (i.e.
> >
> > No, it's the horizontal posture plus the weightless
> > environment.
>
> True. You don't fight gravity in the pool. Your heart
> doesn't have to pump blood downwards and upwards in
> the body.

ugh, I learned something from Lysis. I feel dirty.

Lyle out damn spot!

[Peter Alle]

"Jose Yimpho" <joe@rainbowsheep.net> wrote in message
news:SzGdnQJB-t1eBEujXTWc-w@speakeasy.net...
> In news:hOydnUyxeo72B0ujXTWc-g@speakeasy.net, Jose Yimpho
> <joe@rainbowsheep.net> spewed:
> > In news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580@newsread2.prod.itd.earthli-
> > nk.net, August Pamplona
> > <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> spewed:
> >> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote
> >> in message
> >> news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> >>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
> >>>> is to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
> >>>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work
> >>>> and less overall distance to plateau for your chosen
> >>>> race (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks
> >>>> prior to the event).
> >>>>
> >>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
> >>>> cardiovascular shape but to minimize the amount of
> >>>> distance and intesnsity they did, my coach would
> >>>> incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
> >>>> swims with minimal breathing -- say two breaths every
> >>>> 50 yards).
> >>>>
> >>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
> >>>> rate would go up without having to work harder and thus
> >>>> we'd get a better aerobic workout while keeping
> >>>> intensity low.
> >>>>
> >>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
> >>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I
> >>>> (and my teammates) often muttered under our breaths
> >>>> that we could get just as good a workout if we went
> >>>> home and jerked off for thirty minutes while holding
> >>>> our breaths.
> >>>>
> >>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> >>>> cardiovascular shape?
> >>>
> >>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
> >>> with aerobic effect.
> >>>
> >>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
> >>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
> >>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
> >>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
> >>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
> >>>
> >>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
> >>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
> >>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
> >>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work
> >>> output that's important to stimulating adaptations.
> >>>
> >>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
> >>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in
> >>> oxygen uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
> >>>
> >>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't
> >>> increasing the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the
> >>> muscles. So no muscular adaptation there.
> >>>
> >>> Lyle
> >>
> >> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
> >> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
> >> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not
> >> would it have such a beneficial training effect and
> >> what would this beneficial training effect (if it
> >> exists) be?
> >>
> >> Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
> >
> > I'm a little hazy on this, but...
> >
> > Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
> > energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get
> > into the anaerobic energy system.
> >
> > The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from
> > hypoxic training is increasing your LT threshold with less
> > intensity.
> >
> > Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
> > molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
> > the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
> > your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous
> > and I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
> > Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my
> > system of this stupid ion?
>
> Maybe this drink is known as water + baking soda? I'm
> no good at
chemistry.

It's been tried, and (apparently) produced some noticeable
effect. However the pH of urine is supposed to be within a
certain range: falling outside that range = failing urine
test. It seems that drinking enough alkaline stuff to have an
effect will also cause you to fail spectacularly, so not good.

No references to this because it's from memory, and too late
for me to feel like going looking.

Peter

[Omegazero2]

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3ED69DF6.21EE2487@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> Jose Yimpho wrote:
> >
> > In news:1054251425.445571@athprx02, lysis
> > <lysis@all.places.gr> spewed:
> > > In article <3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
> > > lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net wrote:
> > >
> > >> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
> > >> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
> > >> effect as I recall (i.e.
> > >
> > > No, it's the horizontal posture plus the weightless
> > > environment.
> >
> > True. You don't fight gravity in the pool. Your heart
> > doesn't have to
pump
> > blood downwards and upwards in the body.
>
> ugh, I learned something from Lysis. I feel dirty.
>
> Lyle out damn spot!

You did not have to learn it from the ex-nurse - he looked it
up and it is readily found.

[Jose Yimph]

In news:3ED69C89.68E42DD4@grandecomIMRETARDED.net, Lyle
McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> spewed:
> Jose Yimpho wrote:
>>
>> In news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlin-
>> k.net, August Pamplona
>> <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> spewed:
>>> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
>>> message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
>>>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
>>>>> is to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
>>>>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work and
>>>>> less overall distance to plateau for your chosen race
>>>>> (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks prior
>>>>> to the event).
>>>>>
>>>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
>>>>> cardiovascular shape but to minimize the amount of
>>>>> distance and intesnsity they did, my coach would
>>>>> incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
>>>>> swims with minimal breathing -- say two breaths every 50
>>>>> yards).
>>>>>
>>>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
>>>>> rate would go up without having to work harder and thus
>>>>> we'd get a better aerobic workout while keeping
>>>>> intensity low.
>>>>>
>>>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
>>>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I (and
>>>>> my teammates) often muttered under our breaths that we
>>>>> could get just as good a workout if we went home and
>>>>> jerked off for thirty minutes while holding our breaths.
>>>>>
>>>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
>>>>> cardiovascular shape?
>>>>
>>>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
>>>> with aerobic effect.
>>>>
>>>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
>>>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
>>>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
>>>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
>>>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
>>>>
>>>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
>>>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
>>>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
>>>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work
>>>> output that's important to stimulating adaptations.
>>>>
>>>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
>>>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in
>>>> oxygen uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
>>>>
>>>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't increasing
>>>> the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the muscles. So
>>>> no muscular adaptation there.
>>>>
>>>> Lyle
>>>
>>> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
>>> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
>>> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not
>>> would it have such a beneficial training effect and
>>> what would this beneficial training effect (if it
>>> exists) be?
>>>
>>> Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
>>
>> I'm a little hazy on this, but...
>>
>> Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
>> energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get
>> into the anaerobic energy system.
>>
>> The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from
>> hypoxic training is increasing your LT threshold with less
>> intensity.
>>
>> Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
>> molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
>> the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
>> your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
>> I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
>> Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
>> of this stupid ion?
>
> sodium bicarbonate works very well at high doses (I forget
> offhand). It also gives most people what they
> euphemistically described as gastric upset (translate as:
> explosive diarrhea).

Some of the carb + protein powders aimed at athletes for
post-workout supplements are starting to contain this. My
school got some stuff called "Endur-X" or something similar
for a study. Basically fancy whey + gatorade powder. Tasted
good though.

>
> loading with dibasic sodium phosphate works too. 4 g/day for
> 4 days or 8 g the day before a competition. Twinlab used to
> make a product (forget the name and it had a few other
> things that might help) that contained it, dunno if they
> still do.

Phos Fuel. Contains dibasic (sodium phosphate), potassium
bicarbonate, lipoic acid, l-carnosine, various B-vitamins,
pantothenic acid, and biotin. I forgot I had it -- I should
try it and see if it makes a difference.

>
> Cytomax, a drink used by endurance weenies, contains
> polylactates that the manufacturer claims lowers lactic acid
> levels but no study I'm aware of has ever demonstrated that
> it does jack squat in this regards (cyclists still swear by
> the stuff).
>
> Lyle

[Lyle McDon]

Jose Yimpho wrote:
>
> In news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net, Lyle
> McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> spewed:
> > August Pamplona wrote:
> >>
> >> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote
> >> in message
> >> news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> >>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
> >>>> is to train hard for a long time, cycling the different
> >>>> types of workouts. Then you rest, do more speed work
> >>>> and less overall distance to plateau for your chosen
> >>>> race (and basically slack off for the two/three weeks
> >>>> prior to the event).
> >>>>
> >>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
> >>>> cardiovascular shape but to minimize the amount of
> >>>> distance and intesnsity they did, my coach would
> >>>> incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
> >>>> swims with minimal breathing -- say two breaths every
> >>>> 50 yards).
> >>>>
> >>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
> >>>> rate would go up without having to work harder and thus
> >>>> we'd get a better aerobic workout while keeping
> >>>> intensity low.
> >>>>
> >>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
> >>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I
> >>>> (and my teammates) often muttered under our breaths
> >>>> that we could get just as good a workout if we went
> >>>> home and jerked off for thirty minutes while holding
> >>>> our breaths.
> >>>>
> >>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> >>>> cardiovascular shape?
> >>>
> >>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
> >>> with aerobic effect.
> >>>
> >>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a proxy
> >>> for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure heart rate
> >>> than oxygen uptake in the rela world), correlating well
> >>> with it within a certain range (from rest to lactate
> >>> threshold more or less) under certain conditions.
> >>>
> >>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
> >>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
> >>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
> >>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work
> >>> output that's important to stimulating adaptations.
> >>>
> >>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
> >>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in
> >>> oxygen uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
> >>>
> >>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't
> >>> increasing the work output (and hence oxygen use) by the
> >>> muscles. So no muscular adaptation there.
> >>>
> >>> Lyle
> >>
> >> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
> >> have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
> >> Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not
> >> would it have such a beneficial training effect and
> >> what would this beneficial training effect (if it
> >> exists) be?
> >
> > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
> > anything.
>
> Although training at altititude does give you an advantage
> in most endurance sports. There's a reason why the Olympic
> Training Center is in Denver.

Hence my comments below. Big difference between 8-24 hours of
hypoxia and 2 minutes of the same.

> > There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in
> > a chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even
> > use special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has
> > an effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They
> > have them sleeping in the tents to give you an idea of
> > what's involved time-wise.
>
> I think I read an article in Wired magazine that talked
> about Nike sponsoring the "marathoners of the future". They
> lived in sealed houses or something with special air.

They'd have better luck splicing Kenyan DNA.

Lyle

[Lysis]

In article <3ED69DF6.21EE2487@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>,
lylemcd@a.lawyer.stole.my.mom.away.from.me.net wrote:

>ugh, I learned something from Lysis. I feel dirty.

Then why is it that you have always been smelling bad?

[Lyle McDon]

Jose Yimpho wrote:
>
> In news:3ED69C89.68E42DD4@grandecomIMRETARDED.net, Lyle
> McDonald <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> spewed:
> > Jose Yimpho wrote:
> >>
> >> In news:6EwBa.24748$Io.2043580@newsread2.prod.itd.earthl-
> >> ink.net, August Pamplona
> >> <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> spewed:
> >>> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote
> >>> in message
> >>> news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> >>>> Jose Yimpho wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
> >>>>> is to train hard for a long time, cycling the
> >>>>> different types of workouts. Then you rest, do more
> >>>>> speed work and less overall distance to plateau for
> >>>>> your chosen race (and basically slack off for the
> >>>>> two/three weeks prior to the event).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In an effort to keep his sprinters in good
> >>>>> cardiovascular shape but to minimize the amount of
> >>>>> distance and intesnsity they did, my coach would
> >>>>> incorporate a lot of breath control (i.e. rather slow
> >>>>> swims with minimal breathing -- say two breaths every
> >>>>> 50 yards).
> >>>>>
> >>>>> His theory was that by holding our breath, our heart
> >>>>> rate would go up without having to work harder and
> >>>>> thus we'd get a better aerobic workout while keeping
> >>>>> intensity low.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This always seemed like crap to me. Yes, my heartrate
> >>>>> would go up but it seemed "fake" for some reason. I
> >>>>> (and my teammates) often muttered under our breaths
> >>>>> that we could get just as good a workout if we went
> >>>>> home and jerked off for thirty minutes while holding
> >>>>> our breaths.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Comments? Could holding your breath put you in better
> >>>>> cardiovascular shape?
> >>>>
> >>>> The confusion comes in with the equating of heart rate
> >>>> with aerobic effect.
> >>>>
> >>>> What people forget is that heart rate is used as a
> >>>> proxy for oxygen uptake (b/c it's eaiser to measure
> >>>> heart rate than oxygen uptake in the rela world),
> >>>> correlating well with it within a certain range (from
> >>>> rest to lactate threshold more or less) under certain
> >>>> conditions.
> >>>>
> >>>> However, heart rate is typically like 10% lower for a
> >>>> given oxygen uptake during swimming. Water temperature
> >>>> effect as I recall (i.e. don't swear me to it). From a
> >>>> msucular aerobic standpoint, it's the muscular work
> >>>> output that's important to stimulating adaptations.
> >>>>
> >>>> An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
> >>>> anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in
> >>>> oxygen uptake by the muscles you're interested in.
> >>>>
> >>>> Artificially raising heart rate this way isn't
> >>>> increasing the work output (and hence oxygen use) by
> >>>> the muscles. So no muscular adaptation there.
> >>>>
> >>>> Lyle
> >>>
> >>> Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic
> >>> state have any beneficial beneficial training
> >>> whatsoever. Could it raise lactate production? Why
> >>> or why not would it have such a beneficial training
> >>> effect and what would this beneficial training
> >>> effect (if it exists) be?
> >>>
> >>> Curious in ignorance, August Pamplona
> >>
> >> I'm a little hazy on this, but...
> >>
> >> Lactic acid is produced when a lack of oxygen occurs and
> >> energy starts being derived from glycogen.. Thus, we get
> >> into the anaerobic energy system.
> >>
> >> The only (non sport-specific) benefit I could see from
> >> hypoxic training is increasing your LT threshold with
> >> less intensity.
> >>
> >> Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
> >> molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
> >> the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
> >> your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous
> >> and I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
> >> Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my
> >> system of this stupid ion?
> >
> > sodium bicarbonate works very well at high doses (I forget
> > offhand). It also gives most people what they
> > euphemistically described as gastric upset (translate as:
> > explosive diarrhea).
>
> Some of the carb + protein powders aimed at athletes for
> post-workout supplements are starting to contain this. My
> school got some stuff called "Endur-X" or something similar
> for a study. Basically fancy whey + gatorade powder. Tasted
> good though.

I doubt any of these powders have anything approaching an
effective dose. We're talking gram levels of bicarbonate to
do anything.

> > loading with dibasic sodium phosphate works too. 4 g/day
> > for 4 days or 8 g the day before a competition. Twinlab
> > used to make a product (forget the name and it had a few
> > other things that might help) that contained it, dunno if
> > they still do.
>
> Phos Fuel. Contains dibasic (sodium phosphate), potassium
> bicarbonate, lipoic acid, l-carnosine, various B-vitamins,
> pantothenic acid, and biotin. I forgot I had it -- I should
> try it and see if it makes a difference.

That's it.

Lyle

[Top Sirloi]

On Thu, 29 May 2003 17:55:27 -0500, Lyle McDonald
<lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote:

>An increase in heart rate per se is not indicative of
>anything, unless it's accompanied by an increase in oxygen
>uptake by the muscles you're interested in.

Cool page:

http://home.hia.no/~stephens/exphys.htm

--
Scott Johnson "Always with the excuses for small legs. People
like you are why they only open the top half of caskets."
-Tommy Bowen

[August Pam]

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> August Pamplona wrote:
> >
> > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> > message news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > Jose Yimpho wrote:
> > > >
> > > > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to do
> > > > is to

[snip]

> > adaptation there.
> > >
> > > Lyle
> >
> > Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic state
> > have any beneficial beneficial training whatsoever.
> > Could it raise lactate production? Why or why not
> > would it have such a beneficial training effect and
> > what would this beneficial training effect (if it
> > exists)
be?
>
> I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
> anything.
>
> There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in a
> chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
> special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an
> effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They have
> them sleeping in the tents to give you
an
> idea of what's involved time-wise.

Different kettle of fish altogether, I would reckon.
Different level of hypoxia, different type (kind of),
different conditions (I believe they don't even have to be
exercising for the possible adaptation --like you mention,
they sleep hypoxic).

>
> I can't imagine holding your breath for a minute or two is
> going to do

A minute or two while exercising repeated times (probably
lesser times as it's repeated).

> jack shit.
>
> Lyle

At the very least you'll become good at holding your
breath. I suppose not much else. I was just wondering.

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew.
Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You
are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 To email replace
'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'

[Lee Michae]

"August Pamplona"
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote in
message news:5nOBa.22805$rO.2104017@newsread1.prod.itd.earthl-
ink.net...
> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> message news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > August Pamplona wrote:
> > >
> > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote
> > > in message
> > > news:3ED68FDE.15BC2876@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > > Jose Yimpho wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > So when you train for a race, the accepted thing to
> > > > > do is to
>
> [snip]
>
> > > adaptation there.
> > > >
> > > > Lyle
> > >
> > > Forget the heart rate. Could this light hypoxic
> > > state have any beneficial beneficial training
> > > whatsoever. Could it raise lactate production? Why
> > > or why not would it have such a beneficial training
> > > effect and what would this beneficial training
> > > effect (if it exists)
> be?
> >
> > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
> > anything.
> >
> > There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in
> > a chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even
> > use special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has
> > an effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They
> > have them sleeping in the tents to give you
> an
> > idea of what's involved time-wise.
>
> Different kettle of fish altogether, I would reckon.
> Different level of hypoxia, different type (kind of),
> different conditions (I believe they don't even have to
> be exercising for the possible adaptation --like you
> mention, they sleep hypoxic).
>
> >
> > I can't imagine holding your breath for a minute or two is
> > going to do
>
> A minute or two while exercising repeated times
> (probably lesser times as it's repeated).
>
> > jack shit.
> >
> > Lyle
>
> At the very least you'll become good at holding your
> breath. I suppose not much else. I was just wondering.
>

Could be a useful skill around a bunch of guys who consume and
poorly digest copious amounts of protein drinks.

[Lyle McDon]

August Pamplona wrote:
>
> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> message news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > August Pamplona wrote:

> > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
> > anything.
> >
> > There is research looking at putting endurance athletes in
> > a chronic hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even
> > use special tents to reduce oxygen pressure) and that has
> > an effect but it takes days to amount to anything. They
> > have them sleeping in the tents to give you
> an
> > idea of what's involved time-wise.
>
> Different kettle of fish altogether, I would reckon.
> Different level of hypoxia, different type (kind of),
> different conditions (I believe they don't even have to
> be exercising for the possible adaptation --like you
> mention, they sleep hypoxic).

Originally the idea was to have the athletes train at
altitude. Problem was that their intensity would suffer so
much that they'd end up losing fitness.

the solution was to live high (or in one of the tents) and
train low (to maintain intensity).

> At the very least you'll become good at holding your
> breath. I suppose not much else. I was just wondering.

I suppose the group to look at would be the competition depth
divers who hold for many minutes (like 6-7 I think), see if
they've undergone any adaptations to that type of training.

Lyle

[August Pam]

"Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
message news:3ED7D02E.EC7AA745@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> August Pamplona wrote:
> >
> > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> > message news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > August Pamplona wrote:
>
> > > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
> > > anything.
> > >
> > > There is research looking at putting endurance athletes
> > > in a
chronic
> > > hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
> > > special tents
to
> > > reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an effect but it
> > > takes days
to
> > > amount to anything. They have them sleeping in the tents
> > > to give
you
> > an
> > > idea of what's involved time-wise.
> >
> > Different kettle of fish altogether, I would reckon.
> > Different
level
> > of hypoxia, different type (kind of), different
> > conditions (I
believe
> > they don't even have to be exercising for the possible
adaptation --like
> > you mention, they sleep hypoxic).
>
> Originally the idea was to have the athletes train at
> altitude.
Problem
> was that their intensity would suffer so much that
> they'd end up
losing fitness.
>
> the solution was to live high (or in one of the tents) and
> train low
(to
> maintain intensity).

Best of both worlds until somebody gets an eye poked out.

>
> > At the very least you'll become good at holding your
> > breath. I suppose not much else. I was just wondering.
>
> I suppose the group to look at would be the competition
> depth divers
who
> hold for many minutes (like 6-7 I think), see if they've
> undergone any adaptations to that type of training.

They had a chick (and her bearded hippy freak guru) who
did this on Letterman years ago and she was pretty hot.
Does that count as an adaptation?

>
> Lyle

I think a lot (but, I assume, by no means all) of the
adaptation must simply involve learning to ignore the
body's hypoxic signals (you know, the ones which say
you're about to pass out you stupid @#¡% fuck!!!!!!!!!!).

I saw a segment on Scientific American Frontiers a while
ago and it was rather surprising the amount of
improvement in breath holding time that they were able to
squeeze out of Alan Alda after only a few training
sessions. I myself have been able to squeeze out times in
excess of 4 minutes (once, while bored driving a car and
counting time by looking at the tacometer while trying to
keep the speed ever so slightly under 60 mph --this alone
probably permanently disqualifies me for anything beyond
honorary membership in John William's Partnership for an
Idiot Free America).

And of course, all of these apnea types use the trick of
hyperventilating before a dive (which also carries some
risk of its own of bringing on loss of consciousness).

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew.
Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You
are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 To email replace
'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'

[Whitster]

August Pamplona
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote in
message news:lFVBa.26567$Io.2216732@newsread2.prod.itd.earthl-
ink.net...
> "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> message news:3ED7D02E.EC7AA745@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > August Pamplona wrote:
> > >
> > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote
> > > in message
> > > news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > > August Pamplona wrote:
> >
> > > > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to do
> > > > anything.
> > > >
> > > > There is research looking at putting endurance
> > > > athletes in a
> chronic
> > > > hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
> > > > special tents
> to
> > > > reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an effect but it
> > > > takes days
> to
> > > > amount to anything. They have them sleeping in the
> > > > tents to give
> you
> > > an
> > > > idea of what's involved time-wise.
> > >
> > > Different kettle of fish altogether, I would reckon.
> > > Different
> level
> > > of hypoxia, different type (kind of), different
> > > conditions (I
> believe
> > > they don't even have to be exercising for the possible
> adaptation --like
> > > you mention, they sleep hypoxic).
> >
> > Originally the idea was to have the athletes train at
> > altitude.
> Problem
> > was that their intensity would suffer so much that they'd
> > end up
> losing fitness.
> >
> > the solution was to live high (or in one of the tents) and
> > train low
> (to
> > maintain intensity).
>
> Best of both worlds until somebody gets an eye poked
> out.
>
> >
> > > At the very least you'll become good at holding your
> > > breath. I suppose not much else. I was just
> > > wondering.
> >
> > I suppose the group to look at would be the competition
> > depth divers
> who
> > hold for many minutes (like 6-7 I think), see if they've
> > undergone any adaptations to that type of training.
>
> They had a chick (and her bearded hippy freak guru) who
> did this on Letterman years ago and she was pretty hot.
> Does that count as an adaptation?
>
> >
> > Lyle
>
> I think a lot (but, I assume, by no means all) of the
> adaptation must simply involve learning to ignore the
> body's hypoxic signals (you know, the ones which say
> you're about to pass out you stupid @#¡%
> fuck!!!!!!!!!!).
>
> I saw a segment on Scientific American Frontiers a while
> ago and it was rather surprising the amount of
> improvement in breath holding time that they were able
> to squeeze out of Alan Alda after only a few training
> sessions. I myself have been able to squeeze out times
> in excess of 4 minutes (once, while bored driving a car
> and counting time by looking at the tacometer while
> trying to keep the speed ever so slightly under 60 mph
> --this alone probably permanently disqualifies me for
> anything beyond honorary membership in John William's
> Partnership for an Idiot Free America).
>
> And of course, all of these apnea types use the trick of
> hyperventilating before a dive (which also carries some
> risk of its own of bringing on loss of consciousness).
>
> August Pamplona

and passing out or nearly so, is not uncommon among free
divers. has happened to me. definitely a risk dood. it is
roughly similar, in freak you out effect, to falling asleep
briefly at the wheel, which i think many people have
experienced.

whit

> --
> "No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what,
> jew. Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn,
> jew. You are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.
>
> a.a. # 1811 To email replace
> 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
> 'cosmicaug'

[Lysis]

In article
<lFVBa.26567$Io.2216732@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
"August Pamplona"
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote:

>for anything beyond honorary membership in John William's
>Partnership for an Idiot Free America).

Actually the partnership is Williams' subtle way of telling
you that he will kill you along with Lyle and then commit
suicide. How does this prospect make you feel, jew?

[August Pam]

"whitster" <whit@whit.com> wrote in message news:PnXBa.26687$-
Io.2227800@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> August Pamplona
> <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote
in
> message
news:lFVBa.26567$Io.2216732@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.-
..
> > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote in
> > message news:3ED7D02E.EC7AA745@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > August Pamplona wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>
> > > > wrote in
message
> > > > news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > > > August Pamplona wrote:
> > >
> > > > > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it to
> > > > > do
anything.
> > > > >
> > > > > There is research looking at putting endurance
> > > > > athletes in a
> > chronic
> > > > > hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even use
> > > > > special
tents
> > to
> > > > > reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an effect but
> > > > > it takes
days
> > to
> > > > > amount to anything. They have them sleeping in the
> > > > > tents to
give
> > you
> > > > an
> > > > > idea of what's involved time-wise.
> > > >
> > > > Different kettle of fish altogether, I would
> > > > reckon.
Different
> > level
> > > > of hypoxia, different type (kind of), different
> > > > conditions (I
> > believe
> > > > they don't even have to be exercising for the possible
> > adaptation --like
> > > > you mention, they sleep hypoxic).
> > >
> > > Originally the idea was to have the athletes train at
> > > altitude.
> > Problem
> > > was that their intensity would suffer so much that
> > > they'd end up
> > losing fitness.
> > >
> > > the solution was to live high (or in one of the tents)
> > > and train
low
> > (to
> > > maintain intensity).
> >
> > Best of both worlds until somebody gets an eye poked
> > out.
> >
> > >
> > > > At the very least you'll become good at holding
> > > > your breath.
I
> > > > suppose not much else. I was just wondering.
> > >
> > > I suppose the group to look at would be the competition
> > > depth
divers
> > who
> > > hold for many minutes (like 6-7 I think), see if they've
> > > undergone
any
> > > adaptations to that type of training.
> >
> > They had a chick (and her bearded hippy freak guru)
> > who did this
on
> > Letterman years ago and she was pretty hot. Does that
> > count as an adaptation?
> >
> > >
> > > Lyle
> >
> > I think a lot (but, I assume, by no means all) of the
> > adaptation must simply involve learning to ignore the
> > body's hypoxic signals
(you
> > know, the ones which say you're about to pass out you
> > stupid @#¡% fuck!!!!!!!!!!).
> >
> > I saw a segment on Scientific American Frontiers a
> > while ago and
it
> > was rather surprising the amount of improvement in breath
> > holding
time
> > that they were able to squeeze out of Alan Alda after only
> > a few training sessions. I myself have been able to
> > squeeze out times in excess of 4 minutes (once, while
> > bored driving a car and counting
time
> > by looking at the tacometer while trying to keep the speed
> > ever so slightly under 60 mph --this alone probably
> > permanently
disqualifies me
> > for anything beyond honorary membership in John William's
Partnership
> > for an Idiot Free America).
> >
> > And of course, all of these apnea types use the trick of
> > hyperventilating before a dive (which also carries some
> > risk of its
own
> > of bringing on loss of consciousness).
> >
> > August Pamplona
>
> and passing out or nearly so, is not uncommon among free
> divers. has

Never done that (just swimming underwater across a
swimming pool now and then --that sort of thing). I guess
I've always found it much, much more comfortable to swim
underwater than doing actual on the surface swimming --the
latter being something at which I suck in a really big way
(I have to wonder if it possibly might be some respiratory
problem like exercise induced asthma --that's how badly I
suck at it).

I have noticed feeling light headed at times
hyperventilating, on the beginning of apnea period,
feeling light headed at the end of it and feeling light
headed on breaking apnea (so I'm guessing there's risk at
all stages of a dive as well as immediately before and
after). Do you know of any web sites dealing with the
physiology of free diving?

> happened to me. definitely a risk dood. it is roughly
> similar, in
freak
> you out effect,

I'd think it would be more than that. What happens? Suck
in some water and snap out of it due to the cough reflex
if you're lucky?

> to falling asleep briefly at the wheel,
> which i think
many
> people have experienced.

I think I've seen speculation (or is it based on good
research?) that, as far as causation of fatal
accidents, this amounts to as much as big a fraction as
drunk driving.

>
> whit

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew.
Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You
are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 To email replace
'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'

[Whitster]

August Pamplona
<necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote in
message news:Nb5Ca.27392$Io.2293241@newsread2.prod.itd.earthl-
ink.net...
> "whitster" <whit@whit.com> wrote in message news:PnXBa.2668-
> 7$Io.2227800@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> >
> > August Pamplona
> > <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote
> in
> > message
> news:lFVBa.26567$Io.2216732@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlin-
> k.net...
> > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net> wrote
> > > in message
> > > news:3ED7D02E.EC7AA745@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > > August Pamplona wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>
> > > > > wrote in
> message
> > > > > news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > > > > August Pamplona wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it
> > > > > > to do
> anything.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > There is research looking at putting endurance
> > > > > > athletes in a
> > > chronic
> > > > > > hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even
> > > > > > use special
> tents
> > > to
> > > > > > reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an effect but
> > > > > > it takes
> days
> > > to
> > > > > > amount to anything. They have them sleeping in the
> > > > > > tents to
> give
> > > you
> > > > > an
> > > > > > idea of what's involved time-wise.
> > > > >
> > > > > Different kettle of fish altogether, I would
> > > > > reckon.
> Different
> > > level
> > > > > of hypoxia, different type (kind of), different
> > > > > conditions (I
> > > believe
> > > > > they don't even have to be exercising for the
> > > > > possible
> > > adaptation --like
> > > > > you mention, they sleep hypoxic).
> > > >
> > > > Originally the idea was to have the athletes train at
> > > > altitude.
> > > Problem
> > > > was that their intensity would suffer so much that
> > > > they'd end up
> > > losing fitness.
> > > >
> > > > the solution was to live high (or in one of the tents)
> > > > and train
> low
> > > (to
> > > > maintain intensity).
> > >
> > > Best of both worlds until somebody gets an eye poked
> > > out.
> > >
> > > >
> > > > > At the very least you'll become good at holding
> > > > > your breath.
> I
> > > > > suppose not much else. I was just wondering.
> > > >
> > > > I suppose the group to look at would be the
> > > > competition depth
> divers
> > > who
> > > > hold for many minutes (like 6-7 I think), see if
> > > > they've undergone
> any
> > > > adaptations to that type of training.
> > >
> > > They had a chick (and her bearded hippy freak guru)
> > > who did this
> on
> > > Letterman years ago and she was pretty hot. Does that
> > > count as an adaptation?
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Lyle
> > >
> > > I think a lot (but, I assume, by no means all) of
> > > the adaptation must simply involve learning to
> > > ignore the body's hypoxic signals
> (you
> > > know, the ones which say you're about to pass out you
> > > stupid @#¡% fuck!!!!!!!!!!).
> > >
> > > I saw a segment on Scientific American Frontiers a
> > > while ago and
> it
> > > was rather surprising the amount of improvement in
> > > breath holding
> time
> > > that they were able to squeeze out of Alan Alda after
> > > only a few training sessions. I myself have been able to
> > > squeeze out times in excess of 4 minutes (once, while
> > > bored driving a car and counting
> time
> > > by looking at the tacometer while trying to keep the
> > > speed ever so slightly under 60 mph --this alone
> > > probably permanently
> disqualifies me
> > > for anything beyond honorary membership in John
> > > William's
> Partnership
> > > for an Idiot Free America).
> > >
> > >And of course, all of these apnea types use the trick of
> > > hyperventilating before a dive (which also carries some
> > > risk of its
> own
> > > of bringing on loss of consciousness).
> > >
> > > August Pamplona
> >
> > and passing out or nearly so, is not uncommon among free
> > divers. has
>
> Never done that (just swimming underwater across a
> swimming pool now and then --that sort of thing). I
> guess I've always found it much, much more comfortable
> to swim underwater than doing actual on the surface
> swimming --the latter being something at which I suck in
> a really big way (I have to wonder if it possibly might
> be some respiratory problem like exercise induced asthma
> --that's how badly I suck at it).
>
> I have noticed feeling light headed at times
> hyperventilating, on the beginning of apnea period,
> feeling light headed at the end of it and feeling light
> headed on breaking apnea (so I'm guessing there's risk
> at all stages of a dive as well as immediately before
> and after). Do you know of any web sites dealing with
> the physiology of free diving?
>
> > happened to me. definitely a risk dood. it is roughly
> > similar, in
> freak
> > you out effect,
>
> I'd think it would be more than that. What happens? Suck
> in some water and snap out of it due to the cough reflex
> if you're lucky?
>

i've never sucked in water while doing this. i just briefly
blacked out and awoke, still ascending.

very scary

whit

> > to falling asleep briefly at the wheel,
> > which i think
> many
> > people have experienced.
>
> I think I've seen speculation (or is it based on good
> research?) that, as far as causation of fatal accidents,
> this amounts to as much as big a fraction as drunk
> driving.
>
> >
> > whit
>
> August Pamplona
> --
> "No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what,
> jew. Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn,
> jew. You are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.
>
> a.a. # 1811 To email replace
> 'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with
> 'cosmicaug'

[August Pam]

"whitster" <whit@whit.com> wrote in message news:SM5Ca.24303$-
rO.2237381@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> August Pamplona
> <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote
in
> message
news:Nb5Ca.27392$Io.2293241@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.-
..
> > "whitster" <whit@whit.com> wrote in message news:PnXBa.26-
> > 687$Io.2227800@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> > >
> > > August Pamplona
> > > <necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com>
wrote
> > in
> > > message
> > news:lFVBa.26567$Io.2216732@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.-
> > net...
> > > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>
> > > > wrote in
message
> > > > news:3ED7D02E.EC7AA745@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > > > August Pamplona wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > "Lyle McDonald" <lylemcd@grandecomIMRETARDED.net>
> > > > > > wrote in
> > message
> > > > > > news:3ED69B42.23EFFE15@grandecomIMRETARDED.net...
> > > > > > > August Pamplona wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > > I doubt you could maintain it long enough for it
> > > > > > > to do
> > anything.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > There is research looking at putting endurance
> > > > > > > athletes in
a
> > > > chronic
> > > > > > > hypoxic state (i.e. put 'em at altitude or even
> > > > > > > use
special
> > tents
> > > > to
> > > > > > > reduce oxygen pressure) and that has an effect
> > > > > > > but it
takes
> > days
> > > > to
> > > > > > > amount to anything. They have them sleeping in
> > > > > > > the tents
to
> > give
> > > > you
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > idea of what's involved time-wise.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Different kettle of fish altogether, I would
> > > > > > reckon.
> > Different
> > > > level
> > > > > > of hypoxia, different type (kind of), different
> > > > > > conditions
(I
> > > > believe
> > > > > > they don't even have to be exercising for the
> > > > > > possible
> > > > adaptation --like
> > > > > > you mention, they sleep hypoxic).
> > > > >
> > > > > Originally the idea was to have the athletes train
> > > > > at
altitude.
> > > > Problem
> > > > > was that their intensity would suffer so much that
> > > > > they'd end
up
> > > > losing fitness.
> > > > >
> > > > > the solution was to live high (or in one of the
> > > > > tents) and
train
> > low
> > > > (to
> > > > > maintain intensity).
> > > >
> > > > Best of both worlds until somebody gets an eye
> > > > poked out.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > At the very least you'll become good at
> > > > > > holding your
breath.
> > I
> > > > > > suppose not much else. I was just wondering.
> > > > >
> > > > > I suppose the group to look at would be the
> > > > > competition depth
> > divers
> > > > who
> > > > > hold for many minutes (like 6-7 I think), see if
> > > > > they've
undergone
> > any
> > > > > adaptations to that type of training.
> > > >
> > > > They had a chick (and her bearded hippy freak
> > > > guru) who did
this
> > on
> > > > Letterman years ago and she was pretty hot. Does that
> > > > count as
an
> > > > adaptation?
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Lyle
> > > >
> > > > I think a lot (but, I assume, by no means all) of
> > > > the
adaptation
> > > > must simply involve learning to ignore the body's
> > > > hypoxic
signals
> > (you
> > > > know, the ones which say you're about to pass out you
> > > > stupid
@#¡%
> > > > fuck!!!!!!!!!!).
> > > >
> > > > I saw a segment on Scientific American Frontiers a
> > > > while ago
and
> > it
> > > > was rather surprising the amount of improvement in
> > > > breath
holding
> > time
> > > > that they were able to squeeze out of Alan Alda after
> > > > only a few training sessions. I myself have been able
> > > > to squeeze out times
in
> > > > excess of 4 minutes (once, while bored driving a car
> > > > and
counting
> > time
> > > > by looking at the tacometer while trying to keep the
> > > > speed ever
so
> > > > slightly under 60 mph --this alone probably
> > > > permanently
> > disqualifies me
> > > > for anything beyond honorary membership in John
> > > > William's
> > Partnership
> > > > for an Idiot Free America).
> > > >
> > > > And of course, all of these apnea types use the trick
> > > > of
> > > >hyperventilating before a dive (which also carries some
> > > > risk of
its
> > own
> > > > of bringing on loss of consciousness).
> > > >
> > > > August Pamplona
> > >
> > > and passing out or nearly so, is not uncommon among free
> > > divers.
has
> >
> > Never done that (just swimming underwater across a
> > swimming pool
now
> > and then --that sort of thing). I guess I've always found
> > it much,
much
> > more comfortable to swim underwater than doing actual on
> > the surface swimming --the latter being something at which
> > I suck in a really
big
> > way (I have to wonder if it possibly might be some
> > respiratory
problem
> > like exercise induced asthma --that's how badly I suck
> > at it).
> >
> > I have noticed feeling light headed at times
> > hyperventilating,
on
> > the beginning of apnea period, feeling light headed at the
> > end of it
and
> > feeling light headed on breaking apnea (so I'm guessing
> > there's risk
at
> > all stages of a dive as well as immediately before and
> > after). Do
you
> > know of any web sites dealing with the physiology of free
> > diving?
> >
> > > happened to me. definitely a risk dood. it is roughly
> > > similar,
in
> > freak
> > > you out effect,
> >
> > I'd think it would be more than that. What happens?
> > Suck in some water and snap out of it due to the cough
> > reflex if you're lucky?
> >
>
> i've never sucked in water while doing this. i just
> briefly blacked
out and
> awoke, still ascending.
>
> very scary

It's got to be weird! And scary.

August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew.
Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You
are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 To email replace
'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'

>
> whit
>
> > > to falling asleep briefly at the wheel,
> > > which i
think
> > many
> > > people have experienced.
> >
> > I think I've seen speculation (or is it based on good
> > research?) that, as far as causation of fatal
> > accidents, this amounts to as
much as
> > big a fraction as drunk driving.
> >
> > >
> > > whit
> >
> > August Pamplona

[Seth Breid]

In article <hOydnUyxeo72B0ujXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>, Jose Yimpho
<joe@rainbowsheep.net> wrote:

>Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate molecule
>produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns the muscle
>acidic which then makes you tired and affects your nervous
>system. This makes me feel really nauseous and I throw up
>rather easily. Why haven't they made an Anti-Hydrogen-Ion
>drink or supplement that cleans my system of this stupid ion?

Oxygen works pretty well for that. Each atom of oxygen eats
two hydrogen ions.

Seth
--
"There is no such thing as an essential carbohydrate" -- Will
Brink Except sushi rice, seaweed, and wasabi.

[Lucas Buck]

On 1 Jun 2003 02:19:54 -0400, sethb@panix.com (Seth
Breidbart) wrote:

>In article <hOydnUyxeo72B0ujXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>, Jose
>Yimpho <joe@rainbowsheep.net> wrote:
>
>>Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
>>molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
>>the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
>>your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
>>I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
>>Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
>>of this stupid ion?
>
>Oxygen works pretty well for that. Each atom of oxygen eats
>two hydrogen ions.
>
>Seth

But after eating, it has to pee right away.

[Dr_dickie]

Seth Breidbart wrote:
> In article <hOydnUyxeo72B0ujXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>, Jose
> Yimpho <joe@rainbowsheep.net> wrote:
>
>
>>Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
>>molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
>>the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
>>your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
>>I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
>>Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
>>of this stupid ion?
>
>
> Oxygen works pretty well for that. Each atom of oxygen eats
> two hydrogen ions.
>
> Seth

Well, with a couple of electrons thrown in for good measure.

--
--------------------------------------------------
Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
--------------------------------------------------
"The important thing is not to stop questioning. Curiosity has
its own reason for existing."
E. Einstein

[ruscular]

I work in a fitness club and we have a new member who is about
60 years old and he work by diving for lobsters out in New
Zealand. He held his breath for about 3 and half minute per
dive. So I ask him this question about the health benifit of
holding one breath. He said that 3 minute was the quailfying
limits to get this job when he was a teenager and he kept
doing this for fun lator on. He did this because friends told
him that it would get rid of his asthma, so he said in his
honest untrain professional of physiology view that he thinks
that it improve the airsack of his lungs. I ask him how long
do most of the divers hold their breath under water, and he
said from 3-5 minute and thats including with fighting and
grappling the lobster back to the surface. He said that he
still deep sea dive , which he did 2 weeks ago and still can
hold his breath for 3.5 minutes like he did when he was
younger, even after a layoff for 5 years of doing that. he
dives around 40-45 feet under water, but some of his friend
will go to 60 feet max. BTW the guy in question looks great
for a 60+ year old. Very lean in bodyfat.

What I thought was interesting is that every so often is that
he would get into a claw fight with the lobster, and if they
grab him he could still hold his breath, even while in pain.

I dont really know what to make of that, but I am incline to
think that there are some health benifit of holding your own
breath for a lenght of time.

On Sun, 01 Jun 2003 04:52:46 -0400, Dr_Dickie
<Dr_Dickie@chembench.com> wrote:

>Seth Breidbart wrote:
>> In article <hOydnUyxeo72B0ujXTWc-g@speakeasy.net>, Jose
>> Yimpho <joe@rainbowsheep.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Question: I notice that apparently for each lactate
>>>molecule produced, a hydrogen ion is produced which turns
>>>the muscle acidic which then makes you tired and affects
>>>your nervous system. This makes me feel really nauseous and
>>>I throw up rather easily. Why haven't they made an
>>>Anti-Hydrogen-Ion drink or supplement that cleans my system
>>>of this stupid ion?
>>
>>
>> Oxygen works pretty well for that. Each atom of oxygen eats
>> two hydrogen ions.
>>
>> Seth
>
>Well, with a couple of electrons thrown in for good measure.

[Lee Michae]

<ruscular@internetcds.com> wrote in message
news:160ldvcg9hulr864e43470m33u8rgcdidt@4ax.com...
> I work in a fitness club and we have a new member who is
> about 60 years old and he work by diving for lobsters out in
> New Zealand. He held his breath for about 3 and half minute
> per dive. So I ask him this question about the health
> benifit of holding one breath. He said that 3 minute was the
> quailfying limits to get this job when he was a teenager and
> he kept doing this for fun lator on. He did this because
> friends told him that it would get rid of his asthma, so he
> said in his honest untrain professional of physiology view
> that he thinks that it improve the airsack of his lungs. I
> ask him how long do most of the divers hold their breath
> under water, and he said from 3-5 minute and thats including
> with fighting and grappling the lobster back to the surface.
> He said that he still deep sea dive , which he did 2 weeks
> ago and still can hold his breath for 3.5 minutes like he
> did when he was younger, even after a layoff for 5 years of
> doing that. he dives around 40-45 feet under water, but some
> of his friend will go to 60 feet max. BTW the guy in
> question looks great for a 60+ year old. Very lean in
> bodyfat.
>
> What I thought was interesting is that every so often is
> that he would get into a claw fight with the lobster, and
> if they grab him he could still hold his breath, even while
> in pain.
>
> I dont really know what to make of that, but I am incline to
> think that there are some health benifit of holding your own
> breath for a lenght of time.
>

To the untrained observer, this may seem so. Bit the real
health benefits are from the lobster bites. Like bee stings,
lobster bites have undoeumented health benefits.

Lobster claws are a wealth of beneficial trace elements and
act as a crude form of accupuncture.

<I couldn't help myself

[Seth Breid]

In article <1054379021.556425@athprx02>, lysis
<lysis@all.places.gr> wrote:
>In article
><lFVBa.26567$Io.2216732@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
>"August Pamplona"
><necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale@mail.com> wrote:
>
>>for anything beyond honorary membership in John William's
>>Partnership for an Idiot Free America).
>
>Actually the partnership is Williams' subtle way of telling
>you that he will kill you along with Lyle and then commit
>suicide. How does this prospect make you feel, jew?

Actually the partnership's first success was exiling you
to greece.

Seth
--
I'm happy being an asshole, are you happy being an anonymous
moron? -- Lyle McDonald

[Dr. Dickie]

Lee Michaels wrote:
> <ruscular@internetcds.com> wrote in message
> news:160ldvcg9hulr864e43470m33u8rgcdidt@4ax.com...
>
>>I work in a fitness club and we have a new member who is
>>about 60 years old and he work by diving for lobsters out in
>>New Zealand. He held his breath for about 3 and half minute
>>per dive. So I ask him this question about the health
>>benifit of holding one breath. He said that 3 minute was the
>>quailfying limits to get this job when he was a teenager and
>>he kept doing this for fun lator on. He did this because
>>friends told him that it would get rid of his asthma, so he
>>said in his honest untrain professional of physiology view
>>that he thinks that it improve the airsack of his lungs. I
>>ask him how long do most of the divers hold their breath
>>under water, and he said from 3-5 minute and thats including
>>with fighting and grappling the lobster back to the surface.
>>He said that he still deep sea dive , which he did 2 weeks
>>ago and still can hold his breath for 3.5 minutes like he
>>did when he was younger, even after a layoff for 5 years of
>>doing that. he dives around 40-45 feet under water, but some
>>of his friend will go to 60 feet max. BTW the guy in
>>question looks great for a 60+ year old. Very lean in
>>bodyfat.
>>
>>What I thought was interesting is that every so often is
>>that he would get into a claw fight with the lobster, and
>>if they grab him he could still hold his breath, even while
>>in pain.
>>
>>I dont really know what to make of that, but I am incline to
>>think that there are some health benifit of holding your own
>>breath for a lenght of time.
>>
>
>
> To the untrained observer, this may seem so. Bit the real
> health benefits are from the lobster bites. Like bee stings,
> lobster bites have undoeumented health benefits.
>
> Lobster claws are a wealth of beneficial trace elements and
> act as a crude form of accupuncture.
>
> <I couldn't help myself>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I thought that the pinches from the lobster loosened the fat,
thereby increasing fat loss.

--
Dr. Dickie Skepticult member in good standing #394-00596-438
Poking kooks with a pointy stick
====================================
"Let be be finale of seem. The only emperor is the emperor of
ice-cream" Wallace Stevens-1923
=====================================

[August Pam]

<ruscular@internetcds.com> wrote in message
news:160ldvcg9hulr864e43470m33u8rgcdidt@4ax.com...
> I work in a fitness club and we have a new member who is
> about 60 years old and he work by diving for lobsters out in
> New Zealand. He

[snip]

>
> What I thought was interesting is that every so often is
> that he would get into a claw fight with the lobster, and
> if they grab him he could still hold his breath, even while
> in pain.
>
> I dont really know what to make of that, but I am incline to
> think that there are some health benifit of holding your own
> breath for a lenght of time.

If you're underwater at the time, there's an indisputable
health benefit to this in that the alternative, breathing
in water, is notoriously unhealthy.

HTH, August Pamplona
--
"No, jew. Your jew opinion doesn't matter no matter what, jew.
Your writings deserve no comprehension, merely scorn, jew. You
are jew." -Lysis on m.f.w.

a.a. # 1811 To email replace
'necatoramericanusancylostomaduodenale' with 'cosmicaug'

[snip]