This is not working!!!

[ieatmeat]

Hi!

This is my 7th day on induction diet and I have not lost a pound. My weight fluctuates between 240 and 243. For all of you that are losing weight, have you actually added up the calories you eat? What I'm trying to find out is are you losing weight because of no carbs or because of low calorie intake?

I'm not feeling any less hungry on this diet. I feel somewhat an aversion to meat now (my favorite dish before I started this) and I feel miserable, my ketone stick are pinkish red so I am in Ketosis. Yes, I am taking supplements.

[Rikke]

Hiya, sorry to hear you're feeling discouraged. I think the easiest way for us to help you is to post what you're eating - either in a journal, or at www.fitday.com and let us see your menus. I'm sure we'll all be able to provide some insight to get that scale moving downward.

Best of luck,

[Lisa N]

Hi ieatmeat!

In order for us to make suggestions, we really need some daily menus, both the foods and the amounts.
While many find that they can actually eat more calories on low carb than they could on low fat and still lose weight, it's not a license to gorge on low carb foods. In the end, calories do matter no matter which weight loss plan you are following.
Post some daily menus and we'll see if you can make some suggestions. :)

[INTREPID]

Do as suggested above so other members can help spot problems with your diet.
Make sure you are following the diet to the letter (re-read chapter 11: The Induction Phase).

Also, if necessary, read chapter 20: Metabolic Resistance in Dr. Atkins' New Diet Revolution. This chapter is specifically for people who are having a more difficult time loosing weight even when following the diet to the letter.

Don't give up!

[ieatmeat]

OK, here's what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast: 3 eggs, 4 links of bacon, 4 breakfast sausages, slice of cheese, cup of decaf coffee with cream (not 1/2&1/2) and 1 bag of saccharin based sweetener.

Dinner: 3 hamburger patties, 1 cup salad, 1 egg, 1 slice of cheese.

Late snack: 1 cup of sugar free jello with whipped cream sweetened with 1 pack of sweetener (saccharin based)

I usually get up around 11 am and go to bed around 3 am, so traditional "breakfast, lunch and dinner") times do not really apply. My breakfast is around 2pm and dinner is around 7 pm.

I guess the question is, shouldn't I be losing weight no matter what I eat as long as I'm in ketosis?

[MaryToU]

Hey meat, your menu looks a lot better than the first one you posted days ago! I see you are still not managing to get some kind of lunch in. Also you sould beef up the veggies more. I have a hard time with this myself. I know I am not eating the amount I am suppost to be!

As in answer to your question, a reading on the ketosis strips, no matter what they read only mean that you have ketones in your urine. That you are digesting fats, but they could be the fats from your food that you eaten, and not always direct fat from your body.

Ideally you don't have to count calories, but if you are taking in a lot of food, enought to support your weight, you will not lose. For most people, when you cut down the carbs, the calories seem to be lower on there own. Once I started tracking my intake on fitday.com I noticed that I hardly ever get over 1800 calories a day. Not because I planned it that way, but because there are just not as many calories in the food I am eating.

[debbieann]

set up my account on FitDay.com section My Daily Journal under Calories Eaten Today it says 27 carbhydrates under Food Eaten Today it says Carbs 7 Prot 27 can anyone explain?

Thanks.
Debbie

[MaryToU]

debbieann, to get you true "net" carbs eaten you subtract Fiber from Carbs. Fiber is right under Carbs on the Calories Eaten Today area. However the carbs should read the same number in both areas. If it read 27 carbs up top, it should also show 27 carbs on the bottom. I never pay attention to anything other than the carbs/calories/fat part of the program myself.

[ieatmeat]

OK, guys... I get it. THis is the same as what Henry Ford said about Model T. You can have any color as long as it's black. This whole thing is based on the fact that you don't want to eat as much if you're only eating meat. In the end, your calory intake is what determines how much weight you lose.

This is like a cult, brainwashed by Atkins and totally convinced that you're doing the right thing. If you're eating only meat and are happy with it, good luck to you! I wish Atkins simply came out and said that you can't really eat as much as you want. I wouldnt've waisted my time. There's an old Russian fairy tale about someone making a soup from an old hatchet. By the time she added plenty of meat and veggies, the hatchet soup actually tasted pretty good.

Good luck to you all! I just had a pair of Eggo waffles with plenty of sweetened condensed milk and a cup of strong coffee. Guess what! My headache is gone and I feel alive again.

[Lolli-J]

For those of you that read the last post and are thinking -HUH???
let's try and set the record straight.

I DON'T count calories, however I do track everything in Fitday and I know that they range anywhere from 1700-2000 per day.

I eat a variety of foods everyday, and as I've never been much of a meat eater, that is what I eat the LEAST of in a day.

And guess what, I'm still losing weight, and I would bet that hundreds, even thousands, hundreds of thousands! of others that are following this woe are losing weight too!

So, read the book, UNDERSTAND the book, and follow the guidelines and this should work for you.

I've been brainwashed?? Get real.

Lolli

[icedancer]

Every one has stalls, if you've looked around this forum you've seen the gnashing of teeth about it, any weight loss plan has plataues, it's the body doing, it's a safe guard to your health, to not lose weight too fast.

It reminds me of when an addict says, all I need is a drink! Ah, that's better.....

I dont' know if I should waste the time but here it goes... No, it's not a low calorie diet due to not wanting to eat because of being sick of meat. I eat more veggies than I ever did before this WOL.

But maybe it's a satiation diet, meaning because of the lack of highly glycemic carbs in the diet you actually feel satisified, instead of the body "demanding" food....

When I started Induction I ate all I wanted, 6 fried eggs, fried in the bacon grease that I had as well, 6 slices, for breakfast, but after the 1st week of Induction I had lost weight and I felt I didn't need to eat that much anymore, I was satisfied with less.

2 weeks in induction and I lost alot, it's been a while but it was between 15-20 lbs. I also found as I cut out the bacon and cheese, it was better, because the salt in both was causing a water weight problem and I'm a guy....

Well anyone who would say (cult, brainwashing, and Atkins) sounds like they aren't really interested, and anyone who's only interested in eating all they want.... as opposed to losing weight is missing the boat anyway. Well, ieatmeat, I wish you well on your Eggo diet, I'm sure it'll work, for you.

later if you want....

[ieatmeat]

Yes, when I eat 1800 to 2000 calories per day on ANY diet, especially if I also exercise, I lose weight. Yes, you've been brainwashed. On 1200 cal per day I don't even need to exercise and it can be 100% carbs. I tried it. Yes, proteins with veggies is probably better than all carbs, but my point is, you're not losing weight because you eat proteins and veggies. You're losing weight because of the number of calories you eat.

By the way, I've read the book. That's what convinced me to try this. As I said before, however, Atkins says that you can eat as much as you want, but he does so only in hopes that you're full enough that you won't want to eat more than the 2K calories. Personally, protein and fat diet doesn't fill me up. I could eat twice as much as I did, but I feel terrible afterwards and constipation makes matters a lot worse.

Atkins even says that his protein/fat diet is no more calories than low fat balanced diet. He gives an example of a what someone eats, including a 6 OZ steak. Get real, people! My steaks are usually 16 to 24 OZ, that's how I got fat in the first place.

[MaryToU]

Its like hitting your head against a brick wall, but here I go again. When did anyone ever say you can only eat meat? Have we not be telling your over and over again, you need to get your veggies in? I have meat twice a day, actually once, I eat tuna for lunch normally.

Icedancer hit the nail on the head, "you actually feel satisified, instead of the body "demanding" food...." because of this you are eating less. Its that simple. Fats fill you up.

I must say you have not given the program a fair chance. You never followed the plan, just made up you own rule as you went along and then bitched when it didn't work. You seem to be a person who want to be right no matter the cost. Fine then you are right. It doen't work for you, we are all brain washed, blah blah blah... To each their own. You can keep going the way you have been going. And I'll go my way, doesn't bother me in the least. I will still keep losing, and still feel great! To each there own reward.

[MaryToU]

"Yes, when I eat 1800 to 2000 calories per day on ANY diet, especially if I also exercise, I lose weight. Yes, you've been brainwashed. On 1200 cal per day I don't even need to exercise and it can be 100% carbs."

By the way you even have that wronge, if you wanted to track calories the rule of thumb is 10 to 12 times your body weight. IN you case 2400+ a day. Try eating that with will 100% carb and then see if you lose weight.

[icedancer]

Hey, to each his own, and I've been doing this WOL for a while. I like it because, in general, I can't control my cravings for carbs. When I eat them, I am craving more immediately afterwards, sort of like how people complain about eating Chinese food.... So doing Atkins, helps me because of the stable blood sugar. I feel satisfied on less food, if it's less calories that is a side effect.

If you don't have these cravings and can just eat 1800 cals or whatever and lose well, great, but I have a harder time of it. For the 1st time in my life, I don't have to do anything but eat this way and I'm doing good. This last month, I "REWARDED" myself for about 20 days and ate what ever I wanted carb wise, dumb move for me, because in 20 days I gained about 15 lbs, but now, because of this forum and all I've gotten back on track and am moving downward again. So, you can take it or leave it, it does work, but you do need to give it some time, there's no magic bullet for weight loss.

later,

[MaryToU]

icedancer what great stats!!!!! Looking at them tell the everything about this way of life! I would have to think that a good amount of the 15 pounds is water.

[ieatmeat]

I think the best observation here is that each person needs to build his/her own diet that they feel comfortable with, that is correct number of calories. For me it's about 1800 if I want to lose weight, I'm a guy.

Here's what I'm going to try to see if it will work for me. 2 ego waffles with sweetened condensed milk with a cup of coffee in the morning, tossed salad with sour cream for dinner along with some meat, potatoes and a small desert (carbs). At night I will have some nuts. Sometimes Sushi instead of the meat and potatoes, sometimes fish instead of meat, maybe some pasta.

I also plan to walk 3 to 4 miles every other day.

I will let you know how it goes in a week.

[icedancer]

When I was 23 I weighed about 200lbs, I counted calories, kept between 1200 and 1800 cals a day, and walked 2 hours a day. In 6 months I lost 50 lbs down to 150.

Then I got married, had kids, and looked up one day and "noticed" I was 326 lbs..... I can lose weight too in other ways, but I must say that this particular WOL/WOE has been the best for me to keep stable and over the last 5-6 years I've steadily gone down, not in my old ways of steadily going up.

The important thing is to do something about it, but just keep an open mind about the benifits of Low Carbing, health wise and for the long term.....

later

[Lisa N]

I wish Atkins simply came out and said that you can't really eat as much as you want.


Ummm...he has. "Eat until you are satisfied, but not stuffed." and "The metabolic advantage is not to be used as a license to gorge yourself..".
He also says clearly in his book that while low carb eating does give you a certain metabolic advantage because your body has to work harder to convert fat to energy than it does to convert carbs to energy, that calories DO matter in the long run. Those that follow a higher fat/moderate protein/low carb way of eating find that they are satisfied with what they are eating and aren't constantly hungry and going back for more food. Obviously, if you are eating far more calories than your body can burn, even with a metabolic advantage, you're not going to lose weight. Dr. Atkins never claims otherwise in his books.
People follow a low carb lifestyle for many reasons other than weight loss; to heal insulin resistance, to control blood sugars and seizures, to help with polycystic ovarian syndrome and to help with thyroid problems.
The problem that many have with low fat/high carb diets is the unstable blood sugars that result which cause frequent hunger making that way of eating hard to stick with and hard to control their caloric intake on, not to mention that many people simply have a problem with carbohydrate metabolism that causes all sorts of things to go wrong in their bodies like insulin resistance, high cholesterol, high blood pressure and weight gain.
As for being brainwashed, I don't think so. I've consistently been able to consume 500 calories a day more (1,800 calories) than when I was following a low fat/high carb plan (1,250 calories), have felt better, lost weight better and been able to stick with it consistently for over 2 years now. I'm not imagining 75 pounds gone and better lab readings than I've had in years. Neither am I imagining that I no longer need to take two prescription medications to control my blood pressure and blood sugar.
I'm sorry that you misunderstood the principles behind low carb eating and I hope that you find success with whatever you decide to try next.

[coolazchic]

Wow. I think that you are being a bit harsh ieatmeat. Just because something is not working for you does not mean that it does not work for others. Also just because you happen to have your own method of weight loss for yourself does not mean that the rest of us are brainwashed. Everyone has a different way of dealing with the process of weight loss you should not belittle others that use a method that is different than yours. I think it is really sad when something does not work for someone that they resort to saying everyone else must be brainwashed if it did not work for me. JMO

This is a nice board with nice people there is no need to be rude.

[ieatmeat]

I appologize if I made anyone feel bad. This indeed is a very nice board and I guess I was somewhat beside myself when I made my comments. After suffering for a whole week with no results, I was very upset. I was even more upset after I found out that I really have to count calories on this diet, which is NOT what Atkins leads everyone to believe. Yes, he makes some hidden statements that we should not "overstuff" ourselves, but he also says that one of his patients happily eats 9 pieces of chicken for lunch.

Bottom line is, this diet gives you a slight metabolic advantage. Not a big advantage. I will happily trade that advantage for a meal that includes carbs.

When Atkins talks about the fact that in the old days people didn't eat as much carbs, I would question that. Flour has been around for ages. At least 2000 years. Jews leaving Egypt were eating Matzos. That's flower.

Now let's look at Chinese culture. Most of Chinese meals are rice, a big no-no according to Atkins. Have you seen many fat Chinese? I think there are a lot more fat Eskimos who eat mostly meats than there are fat Chinese.

The term "brainwashing" I use in this thread also comes from Atkins. He's convinced that AMA has brainwashed the entire US. Maybe so, but isn't he doing the same thing?

I'm happy for all of you who are able to withstand the low carb restrictions, but Atkins says that everyone should be able to do that and that's the only way to go. He does not think that a balanced diet is good for anyone. That's my beef (pardon the pun).

Again, I want to wish everyone all the best. We should all do what works best.

[coolazchic]

The term "brainwashing" I use in this thread also comes from Atkins. He's convinced that AMA has brainwashed the entire US. Maybe so, but isn't he doing the same thing?

I don't think that he is brainwashing anyone. His method is something he believes in so he is "spreading the word" Thank you for coming back with such a nice post in reply. I did feel a little offened that you suggested that I must be brainwashed for following this method of weight loss. For me in the past I have tried low fat diets, low calorie diets etc etc and none worked for me because I always felt restricted. Carbs are really not such a big issue for me so Atkins works for me. Sure there are times when it is difficult, but this is what you experience on any sort of "diet". This is a "diet" that I will be able to make a WOE for my lifestyle and not feel so restricted as I am following this WOE. I don't think food is meant for us to gorge on, it is meant to provide us with energy and nutrition. I don't think Atkins is right for everyone but I think it is right for me. I wish you luck in your weight loss and hope you find a plan that works for you. I did not mean to come down on you by any means but I had to make it clear that I am not "brainwashed" I do what works best for ME and you should do the same. :thup:

Good luck! :roll:

[RCFletcher]

Hi ieatmeat,

Are you losing weight yet? Everyone is welcome to figure out his/her own diet but it seems to me that you are doing your own low cal diet which is not low carb at all.

Flour has been around for ages. At least 2000 years. Jews leaving Egypt were eating Matzos. That's flower.

Yes, Ok - but unless you are a creationist, this is a very short time in the history of human evolution. With regard to the other races you mention, the population with the highest consumption of carbohydrates in the world is the USA with over 50 per cent of calories coming from carbs. They are also the nation with the highest rate of obesity - this is not a coincidence. I would say the culprit here is probably not wheat, but sugar. The Isrealites may have been eating matzos but they weren't drinking Coke!

I don't think anyone is brainwashing anybody. We are all free to believe and do as we please - just as you and the rest of us are are doing.

Good luck with your weight loss - however you work it out.

Robert

[Alina]

Originally posted by ieatmeat
OK, here's what I ate yesterday:

Breakfast: 3 eggs, 4 links of bacon, 4 breakfast sausages, slice of cheese, cup of decaf coffee with cream (not 1/2&1/2) and 1 bag of saccharin based sweetener.

Dinner: 3 hamburger patties, 1 cup salad, 1 egg, 1 slice of cheese.

Late snack: 1 cup of sugar free jello with whipped cream sweetened with 1 pack of sweetener (saccharin based)

I usually get up around 11 am and go to bed around 3 am, so traditional "breakfast, lunch and dinner") times do not really apply. My breakfast is around 2pm and dinner is around 7 pm.

I guess the question is, shouldn't I be losing weight no matter what I eat as long as I'm in ketosis?

And you claim you have read and understood the book!?
I must say - you've got some nerve and I'm a very patient person, better believe it.
Alina

[Lisa N]

ieatmeat...

I'm not trying to convince you to stay with low carb, but I feel that I have to address a few of your comments here...

Flour has been around for ages. At least 2000 years. Jews leaving Egypt were eating Matzos. That's flower.

Yes, that's true but it was coarse ground whole wheat flour, not the highly processed stuff that we eat today. They lived a very strenuous existence and walked pretty much everywhere they went unless they were wealthy enough to own a horse or donkey. Obesity was also not unknown among the jews and when the mummies of Egypt are studied, they find skin folds consistent with obesity and plaque buildup in the arteries consistent with heart diesease as well as advanced tooth decay in most of them.


Now let's look at Chinese culture. Most of Chinese meals are rice, a big no-no according to Atkins. Have you seen many fat Chinese? I think there are a lot more fat Eskimos who eat mostly meats than there are fat Chinese.

Again...they live a very strenous lifestyle and walk or ride a bike most places they go when they travel. Those that are doing manual labor 8 or more hours a day can afford to eat a few more carbs than those of us who dont. Rice is also used as a side dish and low GI vegetables and meat make up the remainder of the meal. Today, diabetes is rising faster in Asia than anywhere else in the world, especially China and India.
As for the Eskimos, obesity was fairly unknown among them until a Western diet was introduced as were heart disease and diabetes. They never had a word for acne until a Western diet was intruduced which leads me to believe that they never experienced acne until they started eating differently. Those that still eat the traditional diet of the Inuit still are not obese and have a very low incidence of heart disease and diabetes.

As you can see, even thin people develop chronic illness when they eat improperly so it's not just about weight.

Again, I wish you luck with whatever weight loss method you decide to try, but regarding your current plan...it's lacking in protein so any weight loss you do experience is going to include lean muscle mass which is something that I dont' think is high on the list of desired outcomes for most males.

[nikkil]

I agree with Lisa N's comments and would like to add my own.

I may get flak for this, but I think that a calorie is a calorie is a calorie. I don't disagree with ieatmeat when he says that it's a low cal diet, kind of, anyway. All I can say is, I've tried all the low fat/low cal/high carb diets and sure, I lost weight but I was STARVING all the time, craving sweets, etc. With Atkins I find that I'm satisfied much sooner (eat less) and am rarely hungry. If I can eat less calories but not feel like I'm deprived, that's good enough for me.

Good luck to you,
N.

[orzabelle]

And I second Nikkil. I am able to eat fewer calories on Atkins without thinking about food all day long. I do pay attention to calories, though. For me, this is just necessary. Doesn't the 10x-12x calorie rule come right out of Atkins? Can't remember. I am NOT losing weight right now, though, and I started Atkins on the last day of March. I think I might have lost one or two pounds. That's it. And believe me, despite my stats, I can spare it. However, I'm going to stick with it until I do lose the extra lbs., because I know that I can stick with it. I believe that any weight loss plan will not work if one is not commited to sticking with it, and on this one, it is actually possible. (I cut my cals. and did the low-fat thing from Jan. to March and lost nothing - also thought about food non-stop.)

Ieatmeat, I agree that you have to do what works for you. I'm among the few who wonders if ketosis is mythical or real, but I do know that low-carb works. I did the Zone 8 years ago and lost 35lbs. that I never gained back. Maybe you should think about other low-carb plans, ones that will help you to keep your carb options a little more open. (I'm doing Atkins now because I feel as though I need to kick it into higher gear to get ready for bathing suit season, and it's easier to start lapsing on the Zone - I'm trying to wean myself from overcarbing/overeating, which for me, go hand in hand.) Best of luck!

[Alleine]

calories do count. i eat 10x my wieght and still take the lbs off. That's 2900 calories for you to start with. this is not a cult. don't go insulting other people (millions of people) because you can't control your own portions.

peace out

[Elihnig]

From Protein Power by Dr. Michael R. Eades and Dr. Mary Dan Eades:

The Diet We Were Meant To Eat

"Most experts agree that game-hunting was the primary means of sustenance for our ancestors 700,000 years ago. From that time until the beginnings of agriculture (about 8,000 to 10,000) years ago), man lived on a diet composed predominantly of meat of one sort or another. In fact scientists estimate that from 60-90 percent of the calories these early people consumed were in the form of large and small game animals, birds, eggs, reptiles, and insects. The forces of natural selection acting over some 7,000 centuries shaped and molded our physiology to function optimally on a diet consisting predominately of meat supplemented with roots, shoots, berries, seeds, and nuts. Only within the last 100 centuries have we reversed the order to become mainly carbohydrate eaters with meat as the supplement. This dietary reversal--from a diet providing, on average, about 75 percent of its calories from some sort of meat and the remainder coming from plants to one in which only 25 percent of calories come from meat, the rest from other sources--has taken place in approximately 400 to 500 generations, far short of the 1,000 to 10,000 generations deemed necessary by geneticists to allow any substantial genetic changes to take place. We may yet adapt to the high-carbohydrate agricultural diet, but history tells us it will probably take another 10,000 years."

You see, some of us aren't brainwashed by Dr. Atkins, some of us are by other doctors and scientists.

You might find this site to be intellectually stimulating.

Weston A. Price (http://www.westonaprice.org/)

Beth

[YankeeInTX]

ieatmeat: not everyone will respond to LC diets. Not everyone is the same. If you are interested in something else to look at I would suggest The Zone diet. It is very good. It didn't work for me because I am not lucky enough to burn carbs before it turns into fat. Some people can burn carbs fast enough to eat what they want. My brother could eat carbs only for the rest of his life and not gain a pound. He is luckier then me since most of the ready foods out there are carbs. Some people can't eat fat. That is why they do well on low-fat diets. It's a process of elimination to determine what your body will react to.

[indigogirl]

This was actually a great discussion to read through everyone! I have officially finished 14 days of induction - today is day 16 and I have lost weight and am feeling really great.

In the first week I felt so crappy that I couldn't believe it and with the help of many on this forum learned about potassium, magnesium and calcium, picked up my water intake and hung in there. There was a 6 day stretch where my weight didn't change at all.

I am so glad I persevered and although I feel I have a lot to learn I truly feel like my blood sugar is stabilized (no more shakes), I don't have any cravings and I feel so good on this eating plan that I don't really care if I lose weight or not.

Glowingly,

Sally

[LadyDi]

When I was younger I really lost weight on Atkins!!! It works!!!! This time is slow, cause I have a thyroid problem...BUT, believe me...for the amount of food I'm eating, I should be the good year blimp....I'm losing....or staying the same...So if my metabolism was normal...I'd probably be chucking the weight off!!!!! I'm not giving up!!!!!!!

[ieatmeat]

Elihnig,

This is interesting because I just saw a documentary on a local public television station that showed that early humans were not really hunters, but rather gatherers. Just like monkeys today. Even if you look at our teeth, they're not shaped like those of carnivores, but rather like those that eat everything. They stated that humans hunted when they couldn't find anything else to eat, but mostly they went for the easy food sources.

[Alleine]

LOL

So in other words, since the diet isn't working for you...it's completely wrong?

If you know so much, why don't you come up with the perfect diet, stick to it, lose weight and have scientists and history prove your theory right.

While we're waiting, I will stick to atkins and continue to get healthy, lose weight and be beautiful.

:p

[LadyDi]

Well there's always Jenny Craig ;)

[ieatmeat]

If Atkins can say that anything but his diet is wrong, I can also say that a diet that makes me feel miserable and makes me take fistfulls of artificial supplements can't be that good either. Looking at it logically, I can't believe that something that categorically says that fruit is bad can be right. If caveman ate meat, he (she) certainly ate fruit as well. Hey, look at Adam and Eve! :)

I think I came to a conclusion that any diet that categorically (OK, not categorically, just limiting to a minimum) excludes any natural foods can't be good. Everyting in moderation for me.

I think you're all great people. I wish you all the best. If this diet makes you happy, go for it. I would, however, like to quote my favorite movie "Michael", starring John Travolta. He's an angel and he says "You can never have too much sugar". (see, I just had a very nice meal and I'm very happy and kind again).

[faeriegirl]

yeah, but wasn't that angel really fat? wasn't that why that statement was ironic?

[ieatmeat]

No, actually the angel was in perfect shape. Watch the movie, I promise, you'll like it!

[Alina]

I just had a pair of Eggo waffles with plenty of sweetened condensed milk and a cup of strong coffee.

Those are the "natural foods" excluded on Atkins WOE, right?
I rest my case.
A

[ieatmeat]

No, those are excluded by any diet... but man, were they good!

[Alleine]

Um, I am not Christian. I am Pagan so....the whole Angel, Adam and Eve thing doesn't really prove a valid argument to me. We won't go down that path though.

But... to quote a ficticious "Angel" in a Hollywood movie and consider it something valid enough to actually take as words to live by is quite sad, actually.

If you don't like the diet, please go away and stop trolling these boards.

[ieatmeat]

Alleine

Come on! Take it easy! Do you actually think I was serious??? It's probably all the meat you're eating that's draining all the "fun" energy. Lighten up!

By the way, if you're pagan, you may be interested in a collection of crystal balls I have on my site. I know this message board does not allow me to advertise, but if you want to know more, let me know.

[Alina]

From forum rules:

"Who Is Welcome Here?

Anyone interested in low-carb issues. Feel free to ask any questions and be polite in your answers. If you have a lot of weight to lose, very little weight to lose, or just want to follow low-carbing for good health, you are welcome here.

If you do not believe in low-carbing and have strong arguments against it, you are welcome as well, but please restrict your posts to the "War Zone". If you have scientific or medical references you wish to share with us, please post the material in the "Low-Carb Studies" section of our forums."

[Scottie]

Atkins is hard if you make it hard, you got to play by the rules.I genuinely believe this is how we should eat, what makes it so hard is the rest of the western world. We dont need sweets and chocolate, chips potatoes and all these other high carb things but we are surrounded by them,we grew up on them, alot of companies make HUGE amounts of money producing them.

We can choose how we want to eat and what we want to eat, personally i could live on chocolate but it has made me fat and unhappy with my appearance so i have chosen to give it up. I know why we all want these things and it will be hard to give them up.

But I, an adult of sound mind and reasonable intelligence have CHOSEN to break from the high carb cycle. I wish you luck in your attempt to lose weight but no matter what diet waffles and condensed milk aint gonna do the trick!

[Lisa N]

I think I came to a conclusion that any diet that categorically (OK, not categorically, just limiting to a minimum) excludes any natural foods can't be good. Everyting in moderation for me.

Somehow, I don't think "everything in moderation" is what got you to the point of needing to lose weight, but if that's your plan for now and you can stick with it, I wish you luck. There isn't a diet on the planet that I know of that doesn't deny (or greatly restrict) something whether it be carbs, calories or fat. For some people, there is no such thing as carbs in moderation, at least until they get a handle on their carb/sugar addiction.
I have to ask what exactly you think that you are missing from fruit that you cannot get from another natural source?
I'd also like to point out that the fruit we have today isn't exactly as natural as you'd like to believe. It's been tweaked and bred until it's far sweeter and has a far higher sugar content than that which the hunter-gatherers of much earlier societies ate (or actually probably wouldn't have eaten since it was likely pretty sour).
Atkins never says you have to forgo your favorite foods forever...have you read the chapter on maintainance yet or read Atkins for Life? I have and I think it fits pretty well with the "everything in moderation" theme. It's just that those with a problem with carb metabolism must moderate some things more than others if they wish to keep the weight off and stay healthy and those wishing to lose weight need to moderate them even further.

[2bthinner!]

Leave off of the bacon and sausage for the first two weeks and see what happens. I'm not trying to be a smarta$$. These particular foods will hold me up.

And my borderline high blood pressure has gone down since I've been on this. But, hey, maybe I'm just allergic to potatoes, carrots and other starchy vegetables. (They make me break out in pounds!) :cool:

[MaryToU]

My My My, I must say I am surprised all you good people are even bothering to respond to ieatmeat anymore. ;) I have come to the conclusion that he is just here for the drama. Personally, I come to the boards for support and to support others, not to have to defend my choice in eating. There is enough of that out there in the real world to deal with. (OK, turefully no one in the real world has ever given my grief about Atkins. Lots of compliments though.)

Do you care if he really care if he agrees with your style of living? YOU will never prove him wrong in his mind. And I think Lisa N along with a lot of others have done a great job of making theie point! He just want to argue and be right, that is why he is still here trolling the boards. Nothing better to do. NOW to keep the "fight" going, (and it is an interesting one) he will bring creationism verse evolutionism into it. There is a fight that could go on for ever!

I am very happy with my choice, I lost 22 pound and going in over 2 and a half months! He can be right all he wants in his own mind. I really could care less. Best to let him go his own way. I am happy just going my own way, living my life to the way I choose.

[gary]

It is like many other things - some people will turn it into a cult. I certainly did not. I heard bad things about Atkins and stayed away from it - was skeptical. Then I read the book just for curiosity to see what he had to say. I had heard the lower carb message from the Zone and it seemed to make sense that carbs were my problem - realistically looking at what I ate and drank. So cold turkey started Atkins and lost 18 lbs in the first month. By the way for IEATMEAT I did textbook induction with 3 cups of lettuce a day - so you did not read the same book as me - you don't eat just meat. Well 37 lbs lost in 3.5 months - so what can I say but it worked for me. I did not even take more supplements than a vitamin pill. Atkins says in the book that you should not stuff yourself - you should try to get a new copy. I think you got a bogus copy of the book or you just don't understand what the book says. No need to involve talk of cultism.

By the way, Pagans may not relate to crystal balls. Crystal balls are more for fortune tellers and the Occult.

Good luck trying to figure out what works for you! :wave:

[orzabelle]

John Travolta's role in 'Michael' was a pretty chubby angel (and was pretty much described as such in the movie!). I know that part of the thread is long past, but I just wanted to mention that! Not that it has anything to do with Atkins... :daze:

[whyspers]

LMBO!!!! Brainwashed??? Who cares???? I've lost 27 lbs and still going strong. I don't care if I'm brainwashed or quite frankly how it works. I just know it works :)

Most of the people reading this thread are probably shaking their heads and saying to themselves "oh this poor schmuck...he just doesn't get it and will have to struggle with his weight and what he eats for the rest of his life".

Eggos??? Bleck!!! I just had bacon and eggs and a few days ago, I ate lobster dipped in butter. I wouldn't trade that for a cardboard tasting eggo if you paid me...lol.


L

[pegm]

ieatmeat,

I am sorry that Atkins’ diet did not help you. I do know of others who had the same experience – the same diet does not work for everyone, that’s why there are so many to choose from. The ‘everything in moderation’ approach may work well for you, but the breakfast you described is neither moderate nor healthy by any standards. I cannot imagine any qualified nutritionist telling someone that loading up on processed, refined foods is healthy.

Nutritionists are afraid to tell the American public the truth because they know that no one wants to hear that they should not eat the junk. So, they tell them that it’s alright for everyone, even diabetics, to eat some cake, cookies, chips, etc. as long as it’s ‘in moderation’. However, if the person is trying to either lose or maintain their weight by watching calories, even small amounts of that junk piles on the extra calories, and they are ‘empty’ calories, at that. How can a person on a 1,200 calorie diet eat the proper balance of nutrients if 400 of those calories are ‘empty’ calories from cake, cookies, candy or chips with no nutrition? They can’t do it. So, then you are back to ‘taking fist-fulls of supplements’ to balance the nutrition, or go over your calorie count for the day to meet your nutritional needs. Enough times of that in a week, and you are not losing weight or even gaining it.

The truth is that ‘everything in moderation’ should mean everything HEALTHY in moderation – no junk food. If you are going to count calories and still meet your nutritional needs, a person must stick with real foods such as whole grains, veggies, fruits, and lean meats. There is no caloric room for french fries, chips, nachos, beer, cookies, cakes and candy.

Good luck to you, I hope you find a healthy way to obtain your goals.

[LadyDi]

Haven't you noticed when you talk on different sites, that there is always one person comes along to try to poison the pot? If there unhappy with their life or what ever, and dont like the diet, fine...bye see ya. Generally they come back if you answer them....cause they are bored!!!!! Go eat some carbs :devil:

[ieatmeat]

I guess I've known for a long time that one can never win an argument in religion. Atkins has a religious following and once people are convinced by his book, they will never listen to any other reason. The guy was a genius!

I tried the induction for a week. I felt horrible. Everyone here was telling me to "stick it out". What if by "sticking it out" I got kidney stones and a slew of other illnesses that this type of diet can offer? Yes, I know, Atkins says you'll never get ill, but that's not what other data outside of his book shows.

I can understand dieting like this and feeling good. That's why I started it myself. But dieting and feeling bad?

All of you guys are losing weight right now. That's great! You, however, have all also become nutritional experts after reading a book. You haven't really done research on this nor can you. To do adequate research you need to know a lot of bio chemistry and human physiology, yet everyone is eager to give advice. You close your ears to anyone who says anything you disagree with.

Keeping an open mind does not necessarily mean agreeing with non-traditional methods. Keeping an open mind means that you can equally evaluate all methods.

[orzabelle]

I don't disagree with you, Ieatmeat. I feel like Atkins works for me, but I'm not sure if it's because I manage to eat lower calories or what. When I'm eating high/regular carbs, I tend to overeat. I don't see it as any more mysterious than that. I definitely am not overeating now. Haven't lost much, but don't have much to lose. If left to my own devices, I'd probably put on 5 lbs. a year. I did low-carb years ago and lost weight I never put back on, but I must admit, after reading the book and all of the explanations as to why it worked, I was perplexed because I knew I was eating a heck of a lot less than I had before! Dr. Atkins was a fallable human being like all of us, and I think that there is nothing wrong in being critical and analytical, etc. I personally do not believe in silver bullets, and think that anything worthwhile takes WORK.

Today, I've had chicken sausage and a fruit salad for breakfast, and a green salad with pesto chicken, tomatoes, cucumber, mushrooms and walnuts for lunch. I'll have something like tuna steak tonight with a spinach salad. Some people might gob on the bacon fat and mayo, but not me. How could my particular diet lead to any bad effects? I think lots of people are making adjustments to low-carb. I'm using my own nutritional instinct on this one - good fresh foods that don't leave me wanting to barf. I don't think I need to do research to figure this out! The only thing I'm not having is white food - bread, pasta, rice, sugar. And brown food, I guess = chocolate. And as a little treat once in a while, I have a little bit of something yummy, like an ice cream cone or something. And damned if it doesn't taste better than it does when you eat that stuff all the time!

I also believe that low-carb won't work for everyone, just as low-fat won't. I couldn't stay on low-cal/low-fat because I was always completely ravenous. That's just me, though.

But I do think when people find something that works, they can't help but want to spread the word. And yes, it can seem a bit evangelical, but when I did the Zone, I spread the 'word' (sorry about this gospel pun) very enthusiastically, and it led to a good friend of mine, one who could never stay on a diet, losing 50 lbs. She's still slim! It just so happens that she did it via low-carb, but the amounts she was eating before would have kept the weight on, that's for sure. So whatever works, right!

BTW, I hated induction myself, but once I made it through the tunnel, I felt OK, meaning no better or worse than before. But I'll sure feel good if I can walk down the beach without my tummy jiggling along in front of me!

[gary]

There may be a few people who treat Atkins like a religion, but if you look at the entire forum there are people doing all kinds of variations here. Plus there are scientists, Doctors and many people who bring vast experience of their personal battles with weight loss who post here. My doctor does Atkins so wake up guy! There is a whole section on research - do you read any of the articles? Many of us have read research. The information about kidney stones is completely bogus - you want to reference a scientific article that supports what you said? Keep an open mind? You know I have been lucky to lose weight rapidly and not have a life long battle. There are people here who are much more overweight that have had life long struggles trying to find a program to lose weight. Far more troubles than you and I not to mention being subjected to ridicule. So you are talking to people who have desparate open minds to find a program that works. You don't think anybody here has tried all kinds of traditional methods? Who are you kidding? Just read the posts, which obviously you have not read enough! Low carb dieting goes back at least to the 1800s. I am a scientist by training and my observation is you just keep throwing out your own misperceptions and are frustrated by your own personal failure. :daze: Good luck trying to find what works for you!

[Lisa N]

I tried the induction for a week. I felt horrible. Everyone here was telling me to "stick it out"

Well...actually, you did your own version of induction and many people here told you that it wasn't in line with what Dr. Atkins said (not enough veggies, no nuts or berries on induction, stop skipping meals). I'll also note that you made no mention of drinking enough water (or any for that matter), just Diet Coke with lemon (also not encouraged on Atkins because of the Aspartame) and decaf coffee.
It's hardly fair to go off and do your own thing right from the start and then blame the author of the book you read or an eating plan that you didn't follow correctly for your results and how you felt. At least follow the plan as written for a fair trial (the full two weeks) before going off saying that it didn't work and you felt like crap. If you don't want to do the plan as written and give it a fair trial, at least be honest and call it "operator error" instead of design flaw.

You haven't really done research on this nor can you. To do adequate research you need to know a lot of bio chemistry and human physiology

Guess what? We have people here who are doctors, nurses and chemists who have researched and can fully understand the research that has been done. Many of us have read several books on the topic and checked out the referenced studies. We also have a research/media watch forum that is filled with supportive research for low carb if you care to read it.

What if by "sticking it out" I got kidney stones and a slew of other illnesses that this type of diet can offer?

I get the feeling from this statement that you haven't done a lot of research on this, either. There are currently no studies that support the ideas that low carb can give you kidney stones or make in ill in any way as much as those who are against low carb would like to have them. If you know of one, please feel free to post it as long as it relates specifically to low carb actually causing (not "might cause" or "could possibly cause") any of the conditions mentioned.

Low carb's not for you? Fine! Nobody can force you to eat any way that you don't want to and you'll never be able to stick with a plan that you believe is bad anyway, but I have to wonder why you would even try a plan that you didn't think was sound and healthy in the first place. As I said before, I wish you success with whatever you decide to try next.

[Froggirl]

The loss takes some longer than others depending on what you were doing PRE start, as well as medical status. I have syndrome X took me two weeks and lost 2 pds...as my blood sugar adjusts so does my weight DON"T GIVE UP YET!!

[Froggirl]

Some how I lost my 1st paragraph...YOU HAVE TO DO THE PLAN! Lots o water, and follow the eating plan strict! It seems funny..but I hardly ever feel cravings! My body is in it's "zone"!


It may not work for you...and that is OK! :)

[Baconbabe]

This is hilarious!

Where does it say that fruit is bad for you? I eat fruit...I also eat a TON more calories then i did before :)

If you do it correctly...it works...correctly being the keyword ;)

[rebsee]

Why respond to this person?
Why does he even bother to post? It's like a homophobe going to a gay chatroom or something!
Obviously it didnt work for him, so why shoudl it work for anyone else?? - Jealousy, pure and simple. Well, in your face, I lost 21lbs on Atkins :D:D:D

[ieatmeat]

You didn't lose 21 lbs on Atkins. You lost 21 lbs because you were eating a very low number of calories, which just happen to be mostly protein. Why respond to me? Ask yourself that question. You did. Jealousy? I don't think so. You can tell me "in your face" after about 5 years of this.

[Lisa N]

You lost 21 lbs because you were eating a very low number of calories, which just happen to be mostly protein.

Not exactly. If most of your calories are coming from protein, you're not following Atkins. In reality, on the Atkins plan 60-75% of your calories are coming from fats, not protein. Roughly 25-30% of your calories come from protein with the remaining 3-10% from carbs.
While many here are consuming less calories than they were before they began low carb, and that's certainly no secret, it doesn't exactly qualify as a low calorie eating plan as many find (myself included) that they can eat considerably more calories on low carb (1,800 on low carb vs. 1,250 on low fat) than they did on low fat and still lose weight at a better pace as well as not feel hungry all the time. I don't know about you, but I really hate being hungry all the time.

You can tell me "in your face" after about 5 years of this.

And some here could meet that challenge. Myself...well...it's only been a bit over 2 years, so I guess I'm not in the "in your face" category just yet by your standards nor would I want to be. This isn't a competition. It's just something that works for a lot of people who have tried everything else and failed for one reason or another.

[ieatmeat]

Lisa,

Thank you for a very civilized response. As I said before, I do not wish anything bad to anyone. I hope that everyone loses weight and is happy. It's just that, as you can see in this thread, I constantly get challenged by people that are obsessed with their diet and think that there is no other way.

The reason I started Atkins in the first place, and maybe I didn't do my research well enough, is that he states in the book that noone should be hungry on his diet. Everyone's definition of "hungry" is different and the reason I'm fat in the first place is that I love food. A 6 oz steak only awakens my appetite. I can put away a 24oz porterhouse and still have plenty of room for desert. To me, being satisfied is having a complete meal.

You guys find small bits and pieces in Atkins book where he says that this diet is not a license to gorge etc. This, however, is well hidden in a big message that we should not be feeling hungry and should be eating untill we're satisfied. That is all I was trying to do and that did not work for me.

For some reason, people take the fact that I don't like this diet as a personal insult. It is those people that I refer to as a cult. It seems that the more they shout, the more convinced they are that they're right. Kind of like political rallies. If there is one thing I learned about life is that in the long run, those who shout the most end up doing the opposite of what they shout about. Ever had a friend who kept on saying that he will never betray you? An employee who said he will never steal from you? What happened? It's a defensive mechanism for people to try to convince themselves and others that their weakest areas are really their strongest. The more they shout, the more they believe it themselves, but the weak areas don't become any stronger.

Diet is the same way. Those who shout the most will not succeed. Shouting is simply a show of their insecurity.

[plum]

http://www.echonyc.com/~mjfahey/what_to_eat.html

ieatmeat, you may be interested to read this link?

Ive put many years of research into diet and nutrition, and I am excited about low carb because it suits Me best. I really hope you can find that same excitement and satisfaction with something. Try also Protein Power, Barry Groves , CAD? these little tweaks matter because we are all individuals.

I cant deny at the moment, I am eating less calories, but the same amount of calories on a low fat diet would leave me so hungry and dissatisfied.

Perhaps thats my personal "metobolic advantage" in a nutshell ?
good luck.

edit for a ps: see my signature line. It hasnt been easy....but Im succeeding, thanks to the support. Try a journal ?
people would help.

[rebsee]

I did lose 21lbs on Atkins, as that was the particular way of eating I was following at the time - I didnt chop a leg off or anything! I was successful on a low fat diet prior to that, losing 33lbs. I may have been consuming more calories on the low fat diet as I was eating a lot of carbs on that plan, but I don't pay any heed to calories. If it works it works and thats good enough for me (Providing it doesnt make me ill...). At this point in my life Atkins isn't suiting me so I'm on CAD instead which is still a carb-controlled diet, but I do feel much healthier on these sorts of plans.

I'm sorry this way of eating didnt work for you, I truly am (And yes I take back my 'in yer face' too.). It's always disappointing to try a new plan that others had success on and find that it doesn't work for you and I hope that you do find something to suit you.

One thing I do feel strongly is the wonder why you keep coming back here. You wish us luck, that we should all use what works for us, 'If this diet makes you happy, go for it', then try to wind us up with your Eggo waffles, tell us we're all brainwashed and that we can't take the opinion of anyone who disagrees with low-carbing.
This way of eating doesn't work for everyone, the same as low-fat diets don't work for everyone. We are all trying to lose weight and become healthier. I am sorry that this plan didn't work for you and you can see that this way of eating DOES work for us, so why do you keep trying to discourage us from doing it? We can feel the plans working for us, we can see the results on the scale and in our clothes. I don't understand why you are so concerned about what we put into our stomachs. Surely it's worse for us to have huge cakes and sweets than this.

I wish you all the success in your search for the right plan for you, and I ask you - please stop trying to coerce us into terminating the plans that are right for us.

[Lisa N]

ieatmeat...

Your message as a whole is somewhat confusing. You obviously want to lose weight or you wouldn't have bothered to try low carb in the first place, you would have kept on with what you were doing. On the other hand, you don't seem to want to restrict yourself or what you eat in any way and want to lose weight while eating as much as you please of whatever foods you please. That's not going to happen on any weight loss program that you might choose; you will need to restrict something whether it be fat, calories or portions if you want to shed pounds. So what does that leave you with?
It's been the experience of most here who have tried both approaches (low fat/cal vs. low carb) that hunger is greatly decreased once your body gets used to burning fat for energy instead of carbs, but that may take a week or two. Fats and proteins are generally much more satiating then starches and sugar. The fiber from veggies further adds to the ability to not feel hungry between meals.
Next, by learning to eat only until you are satisfied (ie no longer hungry) instead of when you feel full (at which point, you've probably overeaten), you start to learn to listen to your body's signals that tell you "You can stop eating now, I've had enough". For some, that may take a bit of practice and more self-awareness than they've exercised in the past because that little voice that says "enough" has been silenced for a very long time. It may also involve slowing down when you eat so that your body has enough time to know that it's full before it's over-full. It can take up to 20 minutes for your stomach to register that it's full and send that signal to the brain.

I hope that whatever plan you decide to choose to reach your weight loss goals works and is something that you can feel comfortable (and not hungry) with, but if you find that it isn't, I'd encourage you to give low carbing another try. But next time (if there is a next time)...please follow the plan as written and listen to the advice of those who have been following the plan successfully for a while.

[orzabelle]

I don't know how many times I've replied to ieatmeat with understanding of what he is going through, and none of the 'defensiveness' he is accusing so many others of. The fact that he has never responded to my posts (which echo a lot of his sentiments & theories re: low-cal, etc.) makes me wonder if ieatmeat just wants to argue...

[Angeline]

Maybe you should read

The Fat Fallacy : The french Diet Secrets to Permanent Weight Loss by Will Clower.... you can take a peek at the book here (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/097091380X/ref=lib_dp_TFCV/102-7138577-6118514?v=glance&s=books&vi=reader#reader-link). It might suit you better.

[ieatmeat]

Thanks, this looks like a good book. I will read it.

[TombRaider]

I actually wanted to thank ieatmeat for starting up this thread and keeping with the subsequent debate. These types of conversations are absolutely critical for everybody following any kind of low-carbohydrate diet and if we don't step back from the book once in a while, we run the risk of approaching the subject with blinders.

Atkins developed his plan over decades and most of us here have done great deals of outside reading, trying to get our hands on to whatever research we can. As ieatmeat noted though, none of us can claim to be "experts". The University of Chicago hospitals, for example, recently did a short-term study into the possible links between kidney stone formation and low carbohydrate diets that many of us are familiar with (http://www.uchospitals.edu/news/2002/20020801-hplc.html)
This is one of the foremost research hospitals on the planet and even there, independent research into the long term effects of LCing is limited to a study group followed over a period of only a couple of months. I have read Atkins multiple times, i trust his wisdom, and I believe him when he gives us the results of his research and work. At the end of the day though, good science needs to provide us with enormous, idependent, and very long term statistical studies to know what the impact of a low-carb lifestyle will be. The science of nutrition in general is one that is extremely complex, impacted by many external forces and factors, and just now is starting to get the kind of attention it deserves.

I believe in the low carbohydrate way and I am at peace with it. I trust and buy into what research I've read. It would be really easy to just get frustrated with ieatmeat for "not getting it". In fact, I have a lot of respect for him as he's forcing us to take a step back and see where are arguments are coming from - something we all need to be doing periodically.

[Qball]

I like this;



"I believe in the low carbohydrate way and I am at peace with it. I trust and buy into what research I've read. It would be really easy to just get frustrated with ieatmeat for "not getting it". In fact, I have a lot of respect for him as he's forcing us to take a step back and see where are arguments are coming from - something we all need to be doing periodically."



Yes, it's like they told me in the Army, "Know your enemy better than you know yourself".

[seadog92]

Someone else, on another string said "Don't try to teach a pig to dance. It wastes your time and annoys the pig".....this person is convinced he's right and we're wrong. That's fine with me. I've been wrong since March 1st of this year, and have dropped 67 lbs as of this morning. Sure there were a few times when the same weight showed on the scale for a couple weeks at a time, but I knew I was wrong and kept going. I'm gonna stick with being wrong until my goal is reached. I'm gonna wrong way myself for another 80 lbs, then I'll continue being wrong every day for the rest of my life so that I can enjoy the company of my beautiful wonderful family, my terrific wife and be a testiment to being wrong and loving it. :nono: :lol:

[94513]

I think we are like cars - some of us are manual shift and others are automatic. Both take us places, but one takes more hand and foot coordination!

regards,
manual shift

[RamonaC]

Why bother talking he or she obviosly was never really intending to stick to this way of life. Dont waste your breath. We all know we are loseing even if it sloooowly. After im sure he or she didnt gain all there weight in one week now did they. Frankly i have never felt better and i have lost 30 pounds and i have never counted a calorie. For now i am quite pleased and i am no way brainwashed. Just because someone cant stick to something doesnt mean they should be negative to those who CAN. Sorry for you...

[nitrovixen]

This is all highly fascinating to me. This whole argument feels like two sides butting their heads against the same brick wall, from opposite sides obviously.
It's probably fruitless to even offer my 2 cents.. but for the sake of fun I will.

I think dr. Atkins was dumb to lead us to believe you can eat as much as you want. Getting that idea stuck in your head is very dangerous. Not to mention impossible. If you are counting your carbs, the only way to keep under 20 carbs and eat as much as you want would be to eat pure animal tissue or else limit what you eat. Every slice of cheese, every ounce of cream and vegetables adds carbs, so you are very limited in how much you can eat.

Other than that, there are a lot of health benefits in this way of eating, as has been stated in many posts before me. The problem with low fat diets is all the poisons and additives they put in their so-called "food". Anything that follows a program of eating whole foods rather than chemical-injected junk will do your body well. Also Atkins doesn't say fruit is bad. He even allows berries, honeydew and cantelope in induction. After that, when you are allowed more carbs you can eat whatever fruit you want, in moderation. As long as you stay under your carb limit.
I also have problems with my weight on Atkins. If I eat too much food, including protein, I gain weight. Everybody's bodies are different. Some people can eat as much as they want, of whatever they want, and lose weight or stay the same. There's no easy way out. There is no way most of us are going to be able to gorge ourselves on any kind of food and lose weight. But some ways are easier than others, and I've never found a better way than low carbing to lose weight.

just my thoughts for the day.

[Bogus]

I think dr. Atkins was dumb to lead us to believe you can eat as much as you want. Dr. Atkins was NOT dumb. Maybe a bit confusing, though. It's easy to interpret his message as an all-you-can-eat diet. (And yes, I said "diet".) And often know-it-all experts will tell you to up your fat and your calories. I say "Ptooey" on the self-proclaimed "experts". There are no experts, because the truth is, WE'RE ALL DIFFERENT, FOLKS. Oh, and back to Atkins, he DOES say in one of his last books that "calories DO count". This is a given -- that is, if you want to lose weight. I was following all he up-your-fat-and-calories advice and not losing. When a friend pointed out that "calories DO count' and I counted them, my weight started falling. And, for me, the 10X-your-weight rule doesn't work. WHERE do these rules come from????? There are no rules -- except maybe "Cut Out the White Stuff". Other than that, we're on our own. But Atkins was NOT a dumb man. He's saved my life. For that I'm forever grateful. We just need to read every line in his books carefully, because there do SEEM to be some confusing contradictions. Many of us WANT to think this is an all-you-can-eat diet, but good morning... it's not.

[RamonaC]

In the book it tells you not to eat excess, just eat until you are satisfied, how is that eat all u want? Some people dont eat because they are hungry. Maybe he meant that for people have some sort of will power. I do not eat anymore than i did before i just DIFFERENT. To each his own i guess:)

[Bogus]

To each his own i guess:) To each his own... exactly. Everybody is different. Atkin's focus, remember, is heart patients... his secondary mission is controlling obesity. Obese people have an entire psychology and relationship with food than the "average" person does. I think you're right, Ramona, that he does say to eat untill you're satisfied. I'm wondering, though, if in an earlier book he might have said "all you can eat", because so many people interpret it that way. I just know for me that his "calories-do-count" statement is what works. It was reckless abandon that got us into this mess... well, that and evil CARBS! :rolleyes:

[94513]

I feel like I am healed from brain-washing, the idea of low-fat, fat-free and low calorie deceptions. I think eating low-carb is so unbelievalbe because it is simple.

[haljordan]

Ieatmeat, your attitude is bad so i am going to let you know a few things. When you say Dr.Atkins said he had a patient that ate 6 pieces of chicken at one setting, did you ever think that patient might be 300 lbs? This WOL is about being healthy, not just losing weight (a lot of skinny peple are unhealthy). If you started this diet so you can stuff your face all day and niht then you did it for the wrong reasons. I lost 17 lbs in 21 days on atkins and I had at least 1500 or more calories a day. If you are not losing then you are cleary eating WAY to much fat (which atkins says you miht have to cut back on if you dont lose) or you are messing up some where. Quiting cause you did not see results in 7 days is a cop out...when i first started I felt weak also but after 8 or 9 days I had energy and felt great. This diet is not about sutffing your face till you are bloted, but becoming healthy and eating till you are full. When Atkins says you can aeat as much as you like, I am sure he assumes you have common sense and know not to eat till you throw up. So if you want to be a fat slob and eat a dozen eggs a lb of bacon and hope to lose weght then by all means go for it...but dont get upset when it doesnt happen. This diet takes time, proper diet, common sensne and patience and a little will power. Enjoy your eggo waffles! I might add that any diet will work so long as you give it time, stick to it and use common sense. You miht want to give yourself a month on atkins, not stuff your face like astarvin hostage/slob and use common sense.

[Lisa N]

*referee whistle*

So if you want to be a fat slob and eat a dozen eggs a lb of bacon and hope to lose weght then by all means go for it.

haljordan...calling someone a fat slob constitutes flaming and is not permitted by the forum rules to which you agreed when you joined.
You may wish to go back and re-read those forum rules here: http://forum.lowcarber.org/register.php?s=&do=showrules

This is the war zone and while debates and anti-low carb stances are permitted here, flaming and insults are not. Please keep your posts polite.

[nitrovixen]

Bogus, I don't think dr. Atkins is dumb in any sense, I meant that to imply that we could eat as much as we wanted as long as it is the right stuff is not the smartest idea to convey to people who already have eating disorders. He really does set that tone in his books. I think he did it to tempt people into trying it. I don't know about anybody else, but when I started the diet I had the distinct impression that I could eat as much meat and other low carb things as I wanted, as long as I stayed under the 20 carb limit.

He is just as much my hero as he is yours, this is the only diet that has ever worked for me. :)

BTW, what do you mean by "cut out all the white stuff?"

[RoseTattoo]

Where does Dr. Atkins say you can eat as much as you want?? Please cite page number. I don't see that anywhere in my book (DANDR). What he says is to eat "liberal" amounts of good meats, fish, eggs, and good fats. "Liberal" means "generous; it doesn't mean "unlimited"! Yes, that's a subjective measure, but he also goes on to say that you shouldn't eat so much that you feel stuffed. And if you carefully follow induction, it won't be long before your appetite decreases. Your definition of what it means to eat "generous amounts" of the right foods will change, and the amounts will decrease.

IMHO, this is the logical fallacy of the straw man, arguing against something that was never actually stated to begin with.

[Bogus]

BTW, what do you mean by "cut out all the white stuff?" Looks like we're in complete agreement, Nitro.

By "white stuff", I'm referring to sugar and flour... the root of all evil, in my opinion. Before starting on Atkins in 2002, I was depressed, anxious, FAT and have a zillion other symptoms that I never in a million years would have attributed to diet. A few weeks into the program, my depression and anxiety went totally away, I get FAR fewer colds, I have the energy of someone 1/2 my age, I'm thinner... and more! Yep, I'm a fan of Bob Atkins...may he rest in peace.

Have a great weekend. :cool:

[LadyDi]

In the old Atkins book, he mkes references to the amount of meat some people are eating on his diet.....Big huge steaks...chops...all in the same day...

[Lisa N]

Where does Dr. Atkins say you can eat as much as you want??


Rose...I think this might be a case for some of seeing what they want to see. Dr. Atkins does state several times that eating low carb is not to be used as a license to gorge yourself on low carb foods. He states to eat when you are hungry (not when you are angry/bored/stressed/depressed, which means that you will need to start thinking about whether you are really hungry or eating for some other reason) and to eat until satisfied, but not stuffed. He also states in his book that ultimately calories DO matter, but for most it's more an issue of eating too little than eating too much. Of course, there will always be folks that fall on either end of the spectrum (eat too much/eat too little), but most don't have an issue with it.
Yes, when some people read "eat liberally" they interpret it as a food free-for-all, but conveniently ignore the other statements Dr. Atkins makes in his book that I mentioned above.
I don't think Dr. Atkins ever intended to give the impression that people could consume an unlimited amount of food on this plan and still lose weight, that's just how some people interpret it.

[Bogus]

Lisa:
Since you seem to be Atkins savvy, I'd like your take on why so many amateur experts advise people to up their calories even though Atkins clearly states that calories do matter?

Bogey

[LadyDi]

Things is....you tend to lose your appetite on this diet anyway.

[Lisa N]

Lisa:
Since you seem to be Atkins savvy, I'd like your take on why so many amateur experts advise people to up their calories even though Atkins clearly states that calories do matter?

Bogey

Usually this advice is given to those that are clearly not eating enough calories to sustain their basal metabolism, let alone any activity and are reporting that their weight loss has stalled. While doing this once in a while isn't going to make much difference (most of us have a low cal day once a while where we just aren't hungry and don't want to eat), doing it for a prolonged period of time in the hopes of speeding up weight loss is utlimately self-defeating.
When the body senses that caloric intake is consistantly below that needed to sustain basal metabolic activity (breathing, cell replication/repair, digestion, heart beating, brain activity, etc...), it begins to lower your metabolism to compensate to protect you and help you survive the famine that it believes has begun and weight loss slows or stops. You would then need to lower caloric intake further to continue weight loss and the process repeats itself. How long it takes for this self-preservation mechanism to kick in varies from person to person, but eventually it does happen if calories are restricted too low for long enough and yes, there comes a point where calories are so low that it overrides this protective mechanism, but do you really want to go there? I've seen many posts from people who were eating too little and had stopped losing only to see weight loss resume again once their caloric intake was increased to a level that could at least support basal metabolism. What level is that? Generally, it's accepted that your basal metabolism is roughly 10x your current weight (check some online websites on calculating basal metabolism if you want to see exactly how this is calculated). Now granted this formula may not apply if you are very overweight, but for the majority of people it applies. What I see a lot of people doing is using the 10x current weight as their max level of calories for the day to keep losing and 10x goal weight as their minimum and that's the range that they shoot to stay within which seems a reasonable approach to me; it's one that I use myself.
OTOH, lots of people don't pay any attention to calories at all and simply eat when hungry and enough to feel satisfied and they do well with that. I'd only recommend taking a closer look at your daily calorie levels if you aren't losing and have ruled out other possible stallers OR if it seems like the poster is consistantly undereating/overeating; otherwise why stress about it?

Things is....you tend to lose your appetite on this diet anyway.

Exactly. Ketosis is a natural appetite suppressant; sometimes a too-effective one and some people don't eat enough simply because they aren't hungry.

[RoseTattoo]

I can personally vouch for everything you've just written, Lisa. On ordinary "diets" (and even on this WOE, if you're not careful), you can get into a vicious cycle of not eating enough--whether to try to speed up the weight loss or just out of confusion about what to eat--and finding that the body has been tricked into thinking that's all there is, so it had better make the most of it! Years ago, I went on WW after gaining about 15 extra pounds--started off counting the points, and then chucked it and just tallied calories. It worked for awhile, and then became an ironical game whereby every day would be another contest to see how little I could eat. Naturally all the weight came back, and more.

[LadyDi]

Usually this advice is given to those that are clearly not eating enough calories to sustain their basal metabolism, let alone any activity and are reporting that their weight loss has stalled. While doing this once in a while isn't going to make much difference (most of us have a low cal day once a while where we just aren't hungry and don't want to eat), doing it for a prolonged period of time in the hopes of speeding up weight loss is utlimately self-defeating.
When the body senses that caloric intake is consistantly below that needed to sustain basal metabolic activity (breathing, cell replication/repair, digestion, heart beating, brain activity, etc...), it begins to lower your metabolism to compensate to protect you and help you survive the famine that it believes has begun and weight loss slows or stops. You would then need to lower caloric intake further to continue weight loss and the process repeats itself. How long it takes for this self-preservation mechanism to kick in varies from person to person, but eventually it does happen if calories are restricted too low for long enough and yes, there comes a point where calories are so low that it overrides this protective mechanism, but do you really want to go there? I've seen many posts from people who were eating too little and had stopped losing only to see weight loss resume again once their caloric intake was increased to a level that could at least support basal metabolism. What level is that? Generally, it's accepted that your basal metabolism is roughly 10x your current weight (check some online websites on calculating basal metabolism if you want to see exactly how this is calculated). Now granted this formula may not apply if you are very overweight, but for the majority of people it applies. What I see a lot of people doing is using the 10x current weight as their max level of calories for the day to keep losing and 10x goal weight as their minimum and that's the range that they shoot to stay within which seems a reasonable approach to me; it's one that I use myself.
OTOH, lots of people don't pay any attention to calories at all and simply eat when hungry and enough to feel satisfied and they do well with that. I'd only recommend taking a closer look at your daily calorie levels if you aren't losing and have ruled out other possible stallers OR if it seems like the poster is consistantly undereating/overeating; otherwise why stress about it?



Exactly. Ketosis is a natural appetite suppressant; sometimes a too-effective one and some people don't eat enough simply because they aren't hungry.


Na....Im still a pig...with in reason of course;)

[nitrovixen]

Rose tattoo: it’s moot to argue this point with you. I clearly stated that I had the impression it was implied we could eat how much we wanted, not that it was specifically stated somewhere. As his books progress and are revised, he seems to move further away from that notion. Just to illustrate how a person such as myself could get that impression skimming the pages of “Dr. Atkins New Diet Revolution, here’s a few key points from the first few chapters:

“Mankind is not geared to handle an abundance of refined carbohydrates. Losing weight is not a matter of counting calories; it’s a matter of eating food your body is able to handle.” pg 11

“On most diets you’ll be counting calories. When you do Atkins there’s no need for that.” pg 15

“It is true that gaining weight results from taking in more calories than you expend. But excess calories certainly cause you to pile on the pounds-and this is a gigantic “but”-only when you are eating a lot of carbohydrate along with fat.” pg. 17

“Atkins isn’t about counting calories.” pg 30

“Would you like to never have to count calories again?” pg 32

If you had severe food abuse issues and you read these statements, wouldn’t you be inclined to believe the main principals are that calories don’t count, and it is about eating the right foods instead of too much food? It is the tone that I understood, and I have met many others who had the same impression.

We are both on the same side here arguing something very pointless. Besides that, we are arguing about what one person got out of something that another did not. It’s like two people arguing about a Van Gogh painting, for example, Starry Night. one person might take it to mean God is protecting the village, while another person might think it means simply that a storm is brewing. I certainly have better things to do with my weekend than read through DANDR to find things to argue about. But thanks for the fun chat :) I think we all agree that there is no easy way out.




Bogus: Amen! Sugar and refined flour are the devil. People would be a whole lot happier if they just cut out all that junk. It saddens me to see obese people torturing & starving themselves with chemical-laden low fat high carb garbage. How do people even think that is healthy?? I have two friends that are vegans, and they are sick all the time. All they ever eat is highly processed trick food and sugar. That's another bone I have to pick. In most health food stores, there is sugar in everything!

(Off my soap box now) from what movie is your avatar? I dig old movies and westerns. It looks like Jimmy Stuart? Have a good weekend yourself! :p

[nitrovixen]

ps- not that it has anything to do with what I was saying above, but Suzanne Somers also pushes very strongly that calories don't count and you can eat as much as you want.. But her plan is a bit different than Atkins. That woman contradicts herself every other sentence!

[Bogus]

Nitrovixen: The avatar picture is Humphrey Bogart and Ingrid Bergman in Casablanca.
Bogey

[fairchild]

Nitrovixen
I completely understand where you are coming from. I have spoken to a Dr who has been on this diet for over a year and a nutritionist and they both state that Atkins does not include enough on the psychology of overeating [overeating meaning ingesting enough calories to remain at an unhealthy weight].
Words are always selectively enforced by our mind. It is natural to read someting that agrees with you and the word liberal is the one that you spoke of earlier and what I believe is behind the 'message' that tends to remain in the minds of those who would overeat. The words 'eat liberally' are reporoduced on each and every induction list of acceptable foods. So it is what we would call in PR terms a 'fact sheet' something that is drawn from the larger publication DANDR. More people read this sheet than read DANDR in its entirety. That along with the basic introduction of DANDR is probably the item most viewed by Atkins devotees. Eat until satisfied not full is such a great idea, one recommended by any diet, but something that a person with an eating disorder would interpret differently. People who are morbidly obese [100 pounds over 'normal' body weight] by definition have an eating disorder. Most often it is binge eating. It is impossible to get to that weight without a large consumption of calories. Being overweight can be a symptom of larger issues such as depression and anxiety. Why you eat is as important as what you eat. you know that the secondary health problem of overeating has become to much when you start to become tactical in your overeating-choosing when you can eat alone, thinking about food that you desire when you are full etc. Like many things it is shades of grey on a spectrum between white and black. This should be an overall theme in DANDR not restricted to a chapter.
I read DANDR several times. I also spoke with the Atkins center several times and have a good friend who was a client. I went to them on the issue of calories and weight loss the truth is there is no advice to up your calories when in a stall, if anything they advise removing foods that have caused your calories to increase. The same advice is on the Atkins site under stalls and slow weight loss. The problem is that there is a general consensus in specialists in the field of nurtrition that most folks are by nature lowering their calories on this plan and starting to exercise which could be the reason why they are successfuln in the short term. That is what the Atkins center is arguing against at present.
This slow down in metabolism when calories are decreased is agruing apples and oranges. Truth is many fast weight loss plans decrease calories to a 'starvation mode' level. Successful weight loss plans have limited calories to 700 a day. The average recommendation from any Dr to lose weight is to drop to 1000 or 1200 a day depending on size. There may be a plateau period of slow or negligable weight loss on such a plan, but then weight loss will take over. Ask any boxer, wrestler or take it to the extreme and see what makes a starving person starve and you will see that the rule is true. I am with you that the issue is that most people with eating disorders believe what they want to hear, regardless of what is said. Thats where the danger exists in using words that reinforce pathological behavior.
My personal experience although I wanted to believe differently, is that only by limiting my calories below my daily needs do I lose weight. I have had time to try all recommendations, and I have only lost while doing Atkins low calorie. When I spoke to the Atkins center folks they agreed my body may be like this and I may not be able to exceed my low calorie consumption if I want to lose.
For all those who dont think calories- less calories are advised by Atkins check out the info from his site:
http://atkins.com/helpatkins/faqs/faqslow/index.html
"Could eating Advantage bars be impeding my weight loss?
This varies by individual. If you have reached a plateau and are not losing weight, try omitting the bars until weight loss resumes. Alternatively, you could exercise more to burn the extra calories or try eating only half a bar. Remember, each bar contains approximately 220 calories and these added calories could be affecting your overall weight loss. The controlled carb way of eating has an advantage over low-fat diets in that you can take in more calories and still lose more weight, but don’t regard that as a license to overeat."

"This is not a license to overeat"?
220 calories more is overeating???
Thats where I find the advice misleading-here they are saying you have to eliminate/reduce calories and/or exercise more to lose weight, in direct contradiction to the statements in DANDR which you cited in your earlier post. I am on this plan because it provides a good direction for me in healthy eating choices. But I lost this weight by eliminating calories and exercising as I would have done on any other plan out there. His recommendations to exercise as much as you can are usually one of the things folks find the hardest time accepting or reading out of the book into everyday life, the recommendations to eat liberally are ususally warmly embraced minus the warnings that appear scattered throughout DANDR. This is more than problematic for good health practices.

[nitrovixen]

Fairchild, when I read it now it seems so obvious to me. But when I first started I was just so tickled with the idea that calories don't matter and as long as I stick to the right foods I'll lose weight. Well, after induction (I did lose some weight on over 2000 cals) I was beating my head against a wall, wondering why it wan't working any more! To me, being "satiated" meant I couldn't fit one more thing in my belly. Also I have some sort of oral fixation since I quit smoking 1.5 years ago so I always found myself looking for something to snack on.
It took me about a year to figure out that calories do matter. Maybe I am dense, but I held onto it fiercely.

bogey-Bogart duh.. it all makes perfect sense to me now! :daze: I haven't seen Cassablanca yet.

[gawdess]

Essentially Carbs make me crave....make me hungrier and 1800 calories of carbs is going to leave me hungrier and hungrier.....Thats why this WOE is working for me..I dont crave sugar much anymore. I am sorry this WOE hasnt worked for you...I know I would be disappointed too...I hope you find a happy medium that works for you

[Bogus]

Congratulations on the 21 pound, Gawdness. I like your name, BTW. I won our refrigerator magnet dumb slogan contest a few years ago with my catchy creation: "I Believe in Gaudy". But I digress from what my point was going to be. Twenty-one pounds in your weight loss journey is a nice accomplishment, and I hope you can keep up this fabulous pace using Atkins alone. But many of us have found it necessary to swap out programs from time to time to make this continued weight-loss success work for us. I hope you can make it on Atkins alone. It could happen!

[LadyDi]

THE FAT FAST WORKS!!!!! I LOST 5 LBS IN 5 DAYS!!!!!! I had actually gone up in pounds...but now Im down!!!!!!! :thup:

[fairchild]

Congrats Lady Di!
Thats what I found-reducing calories and keeping the plan going made me lose - use that principle and you will keep losing!

[LadyDi]

I seem to do really well on the first level of the fat fast....I think the fat keeps me content....When I reduce the fat level, I get hungry!!!!! But yes it is low calorie...and low carb....higher fat...which I thought impossible!!!! BUT it works welllllllllll.....

[kat123]

:wiggle:
After reading Atkins, protein power and sugarbusters this is what I have done and have gone down 2 pants sizes in 5 months:

Followed induction strictly for 1 month. After that, I eat everything except for : any white flour products, high glycemic fruits, candy, pasta, etc. What I do eat is this: meat, fish, salads, strawberries, wheat bread if it is under 10 grams per slice (1 only), eggs, cottage cheese, cheese, crackers (wasa), sour cream, cream cheese, and lots and lots of veggies. I don't track my food anymore because I can guess pretty good at how much I am eating. This makes it not so much of a diet and allows me to eat freely. Basically I just elimitated starches and sugar and then...I EAT!!! This has been pretty easy for me to stick to. I will have a chocolate chip cookie maybe once a month but other than that I stay true to this woe. I think that some people make this too dificult by over analyzing and scrutinizing everything they eat too too much. Just cut out the starches and sugar. Pretty basic concept. Good luck peoples!! :thup:

kat

[Tsve]

atkins also says himself that a major component to weight loss is exercise. If you drink water within 10minutes of rising in the morning, it will help jump-start your metabolism.
At the atkins center, I learnt that on AVERAGE, most woman(I don't know about men because I never asked) that do atkins consume about 1800 calories a day. If you are on a very low calorie diet, your body can lose weight, of course, but when you return to any form of eating increased calories, your body thinks you were starving for areason. Like there had been a famine or something or other. It says to itself " I am not going through that again. this time I'll be ready for it," and it decreases your metabolism accordingly. So therefore, it is unhealthy to consume something less than 1000 or 1100 calories. Some people could safely go to around 1200 I'm sure, but eating consistantly around 1700-1800 calories is healthy for people of most weight. I guess if you are really more on the obese side you could easily eat more and lose, but once you start to get within 100 pounds or so of a healthy weight, eating over 2000 calories might warrant difficulties in losing weight, on Atkins or any other form of diet.

[intastella]

Everyting in moderation for me.

Thats a good idea, and an important step in weight loss - but is that the plan you followed that lead you to a weight of 240?

[intastella]

The first sentence of my last post should have been a quote from ieatmeat. I forgot to quote it - just to eliminate any confusion.

[stella j]

i dont think ieatmeat is coming back,, LOL

[gawdess]

Probably not....thats too bad..hope they try again!

[kimberlyw]

Here's what I'm going to try to see if it will work for me. 2 ego waffles with sweetened condensed milk with a cup of coffee in the morning, tossed salad with sour cream for dinner along with some meat, potatoes and a small desert (carbs). At night I will have some nuts. Sometimes Sushi instead of the meat and potatoes, sometimes fish instead of meat, maybe some pasta.

How *exactly* do you consider THAT Way of Eating "Induction?"

LMAO!

No wonder...

~Kimberly

[LadyDi]

Holy Hannah....
How do you fit that in on Atkins?

My God and I was being such a good girl on the Atkins "Fat Fast".....

[mythos]

I just found this forum.

As I approached menopause in my mid 50s I had a very significant weight gain. I found myself at 5'8" and 275 lbs. Unheard of for me. My blood sugar was up as well as my blood pressure. I took meds for Acid Reflux disease. The Type II diabetes was a shock--it was discovered just before the surgery I was having on my knee.

I had already been on a low carb diet, but then really got down to it and created my own version--6 small meals a day, lots of veggies, 6 oz of protein twice a day, (some times more) and exercise of an hour to an hour and a half a day. I put myself on that program on March 3rd, 2004. I'm now down to
205 lbs. and counting.

I exercise a little less now. My blood sugar readings are usually normal and that's without any medication. My blood pressure is usually on the low side and I no longer take medication for that and I only take some antacids for my acid reflux disease.

Since I'm always been a protein person, it's not that hard for me to be on this diet. That being the case, I really can't take much credit. But what makes me angry is that I never cared for big carb foods that much. My body didn't like them, I never liked the way I felt after eating high carb meals and for years we've been haunted by what I call the "Carbo Nazis" pushing that $#%&!! food pyramid with carb foods on the bottom. I've heard that no real nutritionist was involved in constructing that pyramid. It was devised by the Agricultural Industry and certainly helped to sell more grain products. In a sense I believe that people were betrayed by this. High carb diets have been the death of so many people who eat that way.

In my opinion, carbs should be somewhere in the middle of that Pyramid and no more. Veggies and whole grains in equal measure should be at the bottom.
And I've just read that they are going to revise it. I think that should come with an apology for all the damage done.

[Nancy LC]

I've yet to run into any diet where I can eat as much as I can and lose weight. Its sad that you convinced yourself that Atkins would let you do that. The good part about eating low carb is you can lower your calories, lose weight and not be hungry. Eating refined carbs drives your hunger through insulin ups and downs and eventually, for a lot of people abusing sugar and flour all the time, it can lead to poor health.

Even if you don't do Atkins, if you can manage to adopt a diet that is low in refined carbs, high in non-starchy vegetables and fruits, with plenty of protein, I think you'll be doing yourself a wonderful service.

[doralisa]

Well, here's my 2 cents:
I didn't have a lot to lose, about 15lbs. I had been eating about 2000 calories a day, mostly from carbs (yoghurt, bananas, fruit, 1/2 sandwiches)
I felt bloated, gassy and basically unhealthy.
I started Atkins, didn't count calories, followed it to a T and lost about 5lbs in the 2 week induction.
My calories, when I checked it out on Fitday was way above the 2000 but my carbs were around 20.
I am not trying to convince you, IEATMEAT, just stating my experience. Like someone else said, if eating Eggos with syrup and calorie counting works for you, then God bless you.

[dina1957]

I had already been on a low carb diet, but then really got down to it and created my own version--6 small meals a day, lots of veggies, 6 oz of protein twice a day, (some times more) and exercise of an hour to an hour and a half a day. I put myself on that program on March 3rd, 2004. I'm now down to
205 lbs. and counting .Hello mythos:
Do you mind to share the details of your plan with me? I'm 48 and follow lc plan to control blood glucose as well. I'm 48 and want to lose those last 15 pounds! I love to exercise and workout everyday for at least an hour.
Thanks in advance.
Dina
P.S.: You can PM me if you like